how many agree with this statement? Seems like ever since the market tanked in the fall of '08 there have been very few decent entry level positions, and when I say “decent” I mean jobs that will lead to a full and rewarding career. Now there just seems to be an abundance of junior analyst roles that typically don’t lead to anything and from which people leave after a couple of years. Any thoughts…???
Yup, huge drain on higher level jobs in America CBS did a report that of the 8-9 million jobs lost, 2.2 million were manufacturing. Of course, CBS missed the boat and reported how awful it was for America to lose those manufacturing jobs, completely ignoring the fact that almost 80% of the jobs were service jobs!!! That’s a staggering amount of jobs. Today, the only “finance” jobs are all commissioned sales. Of course, this means there is zero risk to the firm for hiring you. And of course this job will get you nowhere… Good entry level jobs are, increasingly, becoming had by campus recruiting in ONLY the “top” name schools in America. Ivy League kids have always had the best job opportunities but the disparity of career opportunities between the “top” and “middle of the road” colleges are higher than they’ve ever been. The rich get richer and the middle class is gets poor. I’m not complaining, Ivy kids are the best and brightest, but seriously, Goldman, how many Dartmouth grads named Raj do you need?
volante99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yup, huge drain on higher level jobs in America > > CBS did a report that of the 8-9 million jobs > lost, 2.2 million were manufacturing. Of course, > CBS missed the boat and reported how awful it was > for America to lose those manufacturing jobs, > completely ignoring the fact that almost 80% of > the jobs were service jobs!!! That’s a staggering > amount of jobs. > > Today, the only “finance” jobs are all > commissioned sales. Of course, this means there is > zero risk to the firm for hiring you. And of > course this job will get you nowhere… > > Good entry level jobs are, increasingly, becoming > had by campus recruiting in ONLY the “top” name > schools in America. Ivy League kids have always > had the best job opportunities but the disparity > of career opportunities between the “top” and > “middle of the road” colleges are higher than > they’ve ever been. The rich get richer and the > middle class is gets poor. I’m not complaining, > Ivy kids are the best and brightest, but > seriously, Goldman, how many Dartmouth grads named > Raj do you need? disagree. my wife turns down ivy kids daily and in education. i also turn them down daily and on a desk
goldenboy09 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > volante99 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Yup, huge drain on higher level jobs in America > > > > CBS did a report that of the 8-9 million jobs > > lost, 2.2 million were manufacturing. Of > course, > > CBS missed the boat and reported how awful it > was > > for America to lose those manufacturing jobs, > > completely ignoring the fact that almost 80% of > > the jobs were service jobs!!! That’s a > staggering > > amount of jobs. > > > > Today, the only “finance” jobs are all > > commissioned sales. Of course, this means there > is > > zero risk to the firm for hiring you. And of > > course this job will get you nowhere… > > > > Good entry level jobs are, increasingly, > becoming > > had by campus recruiting in ONLY the “top” name > > schools in America. Ivy League kids have always > > had the best job opportunities but the > disparity > > of career opportunities between the “top” and > > “middle of the road” colleges are higher than > > they’ve ever been. The rich get richer and the > > middle class is gets poor. I’m not complaining, > > Ivy kids are the best and brightest, but > > seriously, Goldman, how many Dartmouth grads > named > > Raj do you need? > > > disagree. my wife turns down ivy kids daily and in > education. i also turn them down daily and on a > desk Well of course there are always anomalies. There’s always going to be the hotshot kid from North Dakota State who’s going to get into Blackstone. But it’s not only the good degree that makes Ivy kids attractive to employers. They have access to their connected parents, good internships, and clubs that “no-name” college students often don’t have. My observation about the growing disparity between opportunities for top schools vs no-name students is also limited to larger corporations (big banks, F500 companies, etc). It’s actually gotten much worse in just the past 10-15 years. Case in point, my school used to have tons of kids getting into local MM banks. We had c-level executives at the top and had a good local reputation. But, today, I don’t know anyone in my '09 class who made it past HR. True, maybe things in finance are just more competitive, but another part of me believes that these firms are, now, more interested only with recruiting “top” students, from “top” schools.
going to top schools is just a short cut for them, and HR at banks is nothing if not lazy. an ivy league kid will be a better fit **on average** then someone from somewhere else…
thems Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > going to top schools is just a short cut for them, > and HR at banks is nothing if not lazy. an ivy > league kid will be a better fit **on average** > then someone from somewhere else… x2…HR people are some of the dumbest and laziest people on earth. They will hire a sub par ivy league candidate (like GW) over a top public uni student without batting an eyelid. They do the same if France…it dosen’t matter what your work performance is like. Only which school you went to (like Ecole polytechnique).
If you think about it, these prestigious firms are smart for hiring mostly ivy league folks. For one, it keeps their prestige alive as not anyone can join their firm. Two, for every ivy league kid they hire, they become connected to his connections, which are usually pretty vast for these folks. Think about it, if you are a hedge fund, who is always concerned with building AUM, would you hire some smart but poor kid with no connections from Ohio, or would you hire a slightly less intelligent kid with a pedigree from NYC. The pedigreed kid, will likely get some of his family/friends to atleast consider tossing a bit of capital or opportunities the way of his firm. Plus, that kid probably got the job in the first place due to his network, that Billie Joe from Ohio does not have. By the way, I am no where near Ivy league educated.
What do you mean by a full and rewarding career? How do you measure it? For me it is not having a boss…first and foremost…I don’t mind rules but I don’t want to be mircomanaged, I don’t want anybody telling me what to do and I don’t want to have to rely on the personal opinions of a couple of people to keep my job. The ability to work long hours when I want and have some free time when I want. The ability to be compensated for what I do with no upper limits.
Many are called but few are chosen -Peter Tosh
As an '07 grad (no-name school)I can say I have been looking for an entry-level role for sometime and it’s very dismal to say the least…I’m at the point where I’d be happy to get some $12/hr job in finance but even that’s not happening. I pretty much have the same opportunities now as I did in high school. It’s a joke…
Oh and yes if you are one of those lucky enough to land an entry-level job in finance most of them have no growth…very true…(excluding big investment banks of course)
I’m not sure what this discussion is about. Upper finance jobs have always been dominated by people who attended very prestigious universities. 20 people apply for every spot at Harvard because they know it will open opportunities that they would not otherwise have access to. By the way, saying that the best jobs go to people from the best universities is not the same as saying that going to an elite university guarantees you such a job.
I don’t think anybody is debating the fact ivy leaguers should get top finance positions. The concern is what’s left for the rest of us…
simon whats your email address?
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > By the way, saying that the best jobs go to people > from the best universities is not the same as > saying that going to an elite university > guarantees you such a job. In my experience, unless you’re a complete nincompoop, anyone with an elite degree should at least be able to land a decent entry level finance job if they want to. Now “decent” means different things to different people. Some grads think “decent” is making 120K the first year out of ugrad. Obviously, not everyone at the ivies are going to get that kind of job, but one SHOULD be able to land a FO finance role. Not having an elite degree on the other hand, basically, precludes you from getting any sort of finance job. Really, it all comes down to on-campus recruiting. If your college has a lot of it; you’ll probably be set. If you’re college doesn’t; start networking because that’s your only hope in hell of ever having a career in finance, and even then, it’s very very unlikely you’ll get past HR as an entry level hire.
volante99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > In my experience, unless you’re a complete > nincompoop, anyone with an elite degree should at > least be able to land a decent entry level finance > job if they want to. I think it’s more accurate to say that such graduates who initially intend to pursue careers in finance and who “fail” to land FO finance jobs will more likely be drawn to attractive positions in other fields, rather than settle for a lesser finance job.
simon14 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh and yes if you are one of those lucky enough to > land an entry-level job in finance most of them > have no growth…very true…(excluding big > investment banks of course) See I can’t find somebody to work for me in an entry level position. I can’t find somebody who wants part time. I can’t find somebody who is actually interested enough to work without making mistakes and costing me more time and money