Hi, I’m sure the rest of you feel the exact same way as we all look at the same internet, with the same forums and questions. I get a strong aura of negativity whenever I read about people who write about the CFA, whether it’s worth it if you’re not in a front office role, whether it’s good to use to get into an MBA program, whether it will get your foot in the door, blah blah blah blah blah. Well I’ve figured out a way to resolve this once and for all, but I just need a little help from everyone. The majority of the people with poor things to say about the designation don’t have the charter themselves so they can p*ss off (excuse the language). But through a little bit of observation I would have to conclude that the CFA is definitely helpful even with very little to no experience… why? how? In past positions in IB ops that I’ve held, I’ve never met anyone in the same firm (or at another firm) that had those three letters after their name… I figure this means that they were able to move onto bigger and better after they obtained the charter… so why doesn’t everyone chip in an name the WORST job that they’ve ever seen or known a CFA charter member to hold? If we can’t really name anything that piss poor, I guess that means the designation really can work wonders in your life… (plus my spirits will then be lifted as the HF i was at last year went down and I am now stuck working in prime services) Thank you all for participating!! No offense to international (i.e. India since I know there are a ton of India CFA holders who have crappy jobs… how? because my company outsourced work to them) but please limit the answers to people you know working in the US and parts of Western Europe. Thanks!
Since a charter holder needs directly relevant work experience, you won’t find many people in IB Ops gaining their CFA charter and then moving to front office. They might pass the three exams, but they can not use the CFA suffix without the work experience and sponsership. Sorry to piss on your bonfire.
Actually if you contribute to the investment process the work experience definitely counts- depends on what area of IB ops you work in. If it’s client service related it definitely qualifies as long as you work with the client (i.e. Middle office, PB, blah blah blah) If you work buy side ops it DEFINITELY qualifies as contributing to the investment process… do your homework
verse214 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > so why doesn’t everyone chip in an name the WORST > job that they’ve ever seen or known a CFA charter > member to hold? If we can’t really name anything > that piss poor, I guess that means the designation > really can work wonders in your life… You are ignoring the alternate explanation - that people who are able to obtain CFA charters are a subset of people who are already competent or motivated enough to get “good” jobs eventually.
I’ll start: Recruiter No great disrespect to the recruiting profession - just that many charterholders I have seen are holding positions directly in the industry. Next up in the pecking order are a couple of compliance VPs here in Hong Kong.
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > verse214 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > so why doesn’t everyone chip in an name the > WORST > > job that they’ve ever seen or known a CFA > charter > > member to hold? If we can’t really name > anything > > that piss poor, I guess that means the > designation > > really can work wonders in your life… > > You are ignoring the alternate explanation - that > people who are able to obtain CFA charters are a > subset of people who are already competent or > motivated enough to get “good” jobs eventually. I’m not really ignoring any other explanation. It doesn’t matter how competent you are if you can’t show it on paper - obviously a mental retard wouldn’t be able to get the CFA so the assumption that you are an able minded individual comes along with the achievemnt of the CFA.
Scouser_in_HongKong Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’ll start: Recruiter > > No great disrespect to the recruiting profession - > just that many charterholders I have seen are > holding positions directly in the industry. Next > up in the pecking order are a couple of compliance > VPs here in Hong Kong. You know recruiters that are CFAs?
Why is everyone making it so complicated an convoluted? Just answer the man’s question (or woman) I only KNOW 2 people with the charter, and both are extremely successful in $400k+ jobs. Granted it is an abysmal sample, but I can’t say from what I’ve seen (and already had offered to me contingent upon my completion of the program) that I buy into the hype that the CFA designation is not worth much.
verse214 Wrote: -------------------------------------- > You know recruiters that are CFAs? Yes - this dude was an I-banker who got laid off. Scouser, CFA
> > I’m not really ignoring any other explanation. > > It doesn’t matter how competent you are if you > can’t show it on paper - obviously a mental retard > wouldn’t be able to get the CFA so the assumption > that you are an able minded individual comes along > with the achievemnt of the CFA. You are trying to see whether the CFA charter leads to better jobs by observing what sort of jobs current CFA charterholders have. Even if all CFA charterholders have great jobs, we can’t tell if the CFA charter resulted in them obtaining those jobs, or if those people possessed characteristics that would lead to them getting those jobs even without a CFA charter. This is a simple causation vs. correlation argument. The CFA charter is not the only way to demonstrate academic aptitude or workplace potential.
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I’m not really ignoring any other explanation. > > > > It doesn’t matter how competent you are if you > > can’t show it on paper - obviously a mental > retard > > wouldn’t be able to get the CFA so the > assumption > > that you are an able minded individual comes > along > > with the achievemnt of the CFA. > > You are trying to see whether the CFA charter > leads to better jobs by observing what sort of > jobs current CFA charterholders have. Even if all > CFA charterholders have great jobs, we can’t tell > if the CFA charter resulted in them obtaining > those jobs, or if those people possessed > characteristics that would lead to them getting > those jobs even without a CFA charter. This is a > simple causation vs. correlation argument. The CFA > charter is not the only way to demonstrate > academic aptitude or workplace potential. If your sample size is big enough and you find 80% of CFAs are well off then it means that CFA adds value. I mean the personality charactersticks would evenly distributed among the CFAs as well.
The main reason why I posed this question is because I have met many older people (in their 40’s) who all took the first level (or two) back in the 80’s and their excuse has been that the CFA “lost value” over time - obviously this is an excuse for their incompetence to complete the program. I’ve looked around at my previous positions in sell-side ops and have not met anyone who has passed all three levels or obtained the CFA designation and ended up stuck there. This has to show that it does something for you. I’m assuming the I-banker who lost his job had to take the recruiter job to generate some sort of income.
I work with IB operation services in middle and back office…I havent seen here anyone who is a charter holder and is in OPS…also I work with a Indian firm whom work has been out sourced…And Ya it is true that in India with if I ever get a CFA I might never have the best job. So truly it depends on the guy and how he works…I think my work with Investment Management firm shall help me in fulfilling my work experience requiremnt.
verse214, your original post was spot on. On AF there is definitely a negative slant to what the charter can do for you. The general consensus I see on AF is it doesn’t do jack for you. But everyone I’ve met in person who is a charterholder says it does wonders. I am a somewhat MO analyst type (mostly data entry ops, but I do some interesting analytical stuff sometimes). There’s only 1 charterholder in my company (my company is not an investment management company or sell side firm). He has one of the better jobs in the company. In person, I’ve met a few charterholders and all of them seemed pretty successful. And I have never seen someone with CFA after his or her name in operations. At some point, it must boost your a$$ out of there. 
Fluffer.
software programmer consultant at my previous firm.
verse wrote "If you work buy side ops it DEFINITELY qualifies as contributing to the investment process… " That is just complete rubbish. https://www.cfainstitute.org/cfaprog/charterholder/membership/work_experience.html Qualifying activities, such as: * o Evaluating and applying financial, economic, or statistical data involving securities or other investments, or producing work that adds value to the process o Supervising persons who practice such activities o Teaching such activities Operations confirm trades, settle them and do the accounting. They don’t do analysis or make investment decisions. Client services is unlikely to qualify either - just talking to clients is not enough. Learn what you are talking about before coming on here and making yourself look stupid.
AnxiouslyWaiting Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Operations confirm trades, settle them and do the > accounting. They don’t do analysis or make > investment decisions. Client services is unlikely > to qualify either - just talking to clients is not > enough. > > Learn what you are talking about before coming on > here and making yourself look stupid. HAHA - can we say NO reading comprehension AnxiouslyWaiting?? You’ve obviously never worked at a small hedge fund that is not a big name run like a sell side firm. Hedge fund operations does not just do trade reconciliation. Beta reports are run, portfolio manager reports are run and distributed, investor reports are distributed on a daily basis - please take a look again on the CFA website: “Evaluating and applying financial, economic, or statistical data involving securities or other investments, or producing work that adds value to the process” Please note PRODUCING WORK THAT ADDS VALUE TO THE PROCESS - this includes beta reporting, and creating reports for PM’s and Traders as a PM/Trader assistant. Goto the sample job title page and explain to me how the below CLIENT SERVICE positions are listed if you are correct in your ignorant assumption: Investor Relations Portfolio Administrator (this is DEFINITELY an operations position - or wait do you NOT KNOW what this is??) And this one just KILLS your point: CLIENT SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE or RELATIONSHIP MANAGER Here’s the link for your to read through - read more carefully next time before you put something in writing to reveal your reading comprehension incompetence: http://www.cfainstitute.org/cfaprog/charterholder/membership/jobtitles.html