I also still disagree with Greenman for the most part. It’s pretty clear the big majority of people think accounting is incredibly dull (to put it nicely). Even if it meant stable employment, I wouldn’t want to do it knowing I’m going to be bored/hate the job for over half the time that I’m awake while alive.
Greenman has a point about how finance is much harder to get into than accounting. So, assumin that it’s not a given that you can just study and walk into a great finance job, would you rather be bored out of your mind and have some moolah to spend when you get home, or do something you love but not have much money to enjoy the rest of your life. It’s not an obvious decision, and reasonable people might go either way on it, but the “I’d never want to be an accountant” seems more obvious to someone who is already in finance than it does to someone on the outside.
Bchad has a great point. There are a lot of people that don’t define themselves by their jobs but rather use it as a means to an end. Taking those great holidays, hobbies, supporting your family. I still remember the look on my son’s face when we bought him his first bike. I’d work a sh!!y job a million times over for that moment.
If your thoughts are to get into that 5% of financiers that Greenman was referring to, you should take a hard look at the career path and properly weigh your odds of breaking in. My employer made us take the Strength Finder course. The only thing I took away from it was their take on the Rudy story. American’s love to root for the underdog, but how much better off would he have been if he applied all that effort into something that he was actually good at.
To Adison - I know there’s more to life than money. And I know that you have to find a job that you like. But for someone who’s on here asking, “Should I major in finance or accounting?”, they either don’t know what they like, or they’re just chasing the dollar.
To Iteracom - Believe it or not, I know a LOT of accountants who really enjoy their job. They don’t just tolerate it–they actually live and die for it. It’s probably not as different from finance as you might think. There’s a lot of business consulting, cash management, cash flow projections, valuation, transaction advisory, succession planning, estate planning, wealth advising, and retirement planning that goes on in a CPA practice. And industry accountants can also have just as much “fun” as public accountants do. Once you start to climb the corporate ladder, you’re not just entering debits and credits anymore–there’s a lot of planning and analysis that goes on.
And you correctly say that a lot of the people on this forum think highly of finance and dreadfully of accounting. Remember that we are on a forum dedicated to finance, and the CFA charter in particular. If you go to another71.com or cpanet.com, you’ll find a different group, and a different groupthink.
To Chad - You are correct in assuming that you can’t just study and walk into a great finance job. If that were true, I’d be making seven figures doing M&A, because I think I’ve studied more than about 99% of my peer group. But to date, my CPA license has rewarded me, and even if I finish the CFA charter, I don’t know that it ever will–at least not relative to the number of hours that I have put into it.
I think you hit the nail on the head–those who already have a great finance job know what they want to do. And if you know for a fact that you will be successful in finance and that you will enjoy finance, go for it. For those who don’t know what they want to do, pick accounting. Once you have a solid accounting background, jobs are more plentiful, and it’s easier to transition from accounting to finance than to go the other way.
Do you have a link to this take on the Rudy story?
For the record, I agree with you. He spent four years of his life, and countless hours, risking life and limb to make his dream come true. His deram was finally fulfilled when he…played three plays.
^Sorry. It was actually out of the book they gave us. Your take on it pretty much sums up what they were getting at.
According to the program, “You can be anything you want to be, if you try hard enough.” is a misguided maxim.
It should be rephrased to, “You cannot be anything you want to be – but you can be a lot more of who you already are.
WTF are you talking about? Are we honestly running out of things to complain about that now we’re not successful unless we follow our passions down the cupcake gumdrop path to the flowery crevasses of our soul and fill them with smiles and teddy bears? That’s the biggest load of pretentious bullcrap if I’ve ever read. Honestly, I’m not trying to be mean, but you should really consider getting your head dislodged from your ass.
The whole point of the original post was to jolt people out of that way of thinking. Greenman isn’t arguing the boring nature of accounting or the fascinating world of finance and doing what you love while giving “total expression” of “natural talents.” He’s simply stating that people’s idea of finance isn’t a reality for a vast majority of college graduates. Those in the majority of college graduates with a degree in finance are most likely going to be relegated to a position that could be equally as boring with less responsibility and pay than their counterparts in accounting.
Nobody is going to reward you based on your intentions or an idea you created for yourself in your head. Hypothetically, you may feel that you’d be the best equity analyst on Wall Street if someone just gave you a chance. Being an equity analyst would check all of your “soul expression” and “innermost yearning” boxes, but that doesn’t matter. Nobody cares and they’re certainly not going to hire you if that’s what you say during your interview. So what are you going to do? You’re going to graduate with a finance degree and take an entry-level position, get your Charter and then what? Do you think PMs are going to be lined up with bated breath for the opportunity to fulfill your soul when those 3 letters are tacked onto the end of your name? And when you find out that, again, nobody cares, are you going to consider yourself a failure? I really hope not.
Some ridiculous expectation that you create in your mind of how this one thing wil allow you to feel like a success, how this one thing is what you were MADE to do and anything else is a complete bore is a very dangerous mindset to have when starting your career. Because guess what? I can almost guarantee that it won’t work out that way. There is nothing wrong with choosing a path that allows you to progress towards your goals. And there’s certainly nothing wrong with having professional goals or wanting to change careers, but if you spend your time idolizing one thing that’s predicated on a convoluted, internalized idea of “success,” you will be blind to how to get there. You will drown out all logical advice in the name of something that doesn’t exist.
Don’t make this too complicated. I understand the idea of doing what you love, but sometimes it takes a lot of heartache before you get there. And if you don’t achieve that box ticking career you wanted, and you’re “stuck” with a career in the back office somewhere, if you hold onto that mindset you will be a joke. I promise you that.
That category doesn’t exist in finance.
You either find yourself in
-
be bored out of your mind and have no moolah to spend when you get home (95% of people in finance - back office)
-
do something you love and have much money (5% - front office)
Accounting is in between (be bored out of your mind and have much money)
That’s what makes the decision tough. If you are among the 5%, finance is the road to go. If you are in the 95%, accounting is better. You most probably wouldn’t know that until after you graduate.
That category was for the non-finance types that might be considering accounting.
Also, I’m not so sure that back office types are that badly paid; it’s just low relative to what the front-office types are doing.
I think 2) should be edited a bit
usually the ‘have much money’ comes hand-in-hand with ‘giving up on social life for X yrs’
There’s always a sacrifice for those working hard to achieve it. Only the few truly priveleged, let’s say your daddy is fund manager, then it’s big money + a social life to enjoy it.
Even for ‘baller bankers’, it’s not the models and bottles lifestyle that so many think it is. It’s a lot of nerds crunching away in excel or pitchbooks into the late hours, eyes shot and exhausted
Again, I make the distinction–there are different types of finance. There’s the sexy type of Gordon Gekko finance, then there’s the other 95%. If you’re in the 95%, you’re working in credit and collections (boring), vendor audits (boring), and running daily cash reports (boring). So, just to throw out the blanket that “finance is exciting and accounting is boring” is false. 95% of finance is just as dull, if not more dull, than accounting. And it pays less. And has less notoriety. And has fewer job opportunities.
I’ve said plenty about my salary. Plus, it won’t mean much. I’m in a very different position than almost everyone else on this forum. I don’t live in a major metro area where CFA’s are in demand, I’ve had bad luck with jobs, I don’t have an elite degree, and I’m starting later than most.
So, no, I won’t take you up on your offer.
I guess I was thinking about traders (scalpers). I worked with people who worked maybe 5 hours a day but made 7 to 8 figures. But they are indeed the minority (less than 4%).
My former boss always told me that the best jobs in the world are sports stars, rockstars and traders. If you are a successful trader, there is nothing better out there.
Can someone define this 5% of financiers for me? I think there are a lot of people with front office jobs that are not at the "Gordon Gekko” level so I’m assuming this is an exaggeration.
dude you’re just going in circles. as I already said people do not shoot to go into finance for the low and back office job. people have the aspirations to be that top few percent. very few will actually make it that is true but people still go for it thinking there’s a chance. so when comparing the potential job in accounting or finance, finance does seem more exciting and attractive because of the work and of the potential reward simple as that. and the consensus of people that have already given their opinions about both types of roles show that is the case
I see what you mean I would agree here
I think we’re both going in circles. I keep saying, “Accounting is better for the 95%,” and you keep saying, “Finance is better for the 5%.” I’m not sure that we’re in disagreement.
You correctly say that people don’t enter finance for the low end back office job, but in my experience, that’s what 95% of finance is–low end back office jobs. (You even said so yourself.) You correctly say that the prospects are more exciting and attractive, but for the 95%, those jobs are largely unattainable. (You said so yourself.) ou keep saying you disagree with me, but then all the points you make say I’m (for the most part) right about finance job prospects. If you’re going to be a low-end, back office monkey, then it’s better to be a low-end, back-office accounting monkey.
And you correctly say that the consensus of people agree that finance is more exciting–but your pool of participants is limited to those on AF. If you went to an accounting forum, you would get a different reply. (It wouldn’t make it any more or less correct.)
^ I see several differences actually. I’m saying it’s not likely to change. You’re not going to change a lot of opinions. And the fundamental type of work is still different. Ultimately, I would still rather be in finance back office over accounting back office ANYDAY. Even finance back office has bonuses way better than accounting.
Just to be clear, what are you including in your defintion of finance back office? I agree that certain finance positions within risk management (CRO function) or valuation for example pay more, but those are also much more competitive for the 95%. Once you move further back office, the line between a finance professional and an accounting professional can get blurry, with the back office finance employees getting paid the same, at best. Even those positions are highly competitive for finance majors. An accounting major, so long as they can put 2 words together can get a job at a Big 4, do their 2 years, get their CPA and choose where they want to go. Once in the corporate sector, that CPA license pays dividends (we have SOX to thank for that) and mobility within the back office is much more of a reality. In my opinion, if you want to build a career in the back office under the CFO function, you’d be crazy to choose finance.
I’m gonna disagree with you on this statement. Getting into the Big 4 is highly competitive, and doing only two years will not get a guaranteed ticket to a corporate accounting role. And you don’t have to work at the Big 4 to become a CPA. You don’t even have to work at a CPA firm in some states. So no, you can’t just work two years at a “guaranteed” job and suddenly make millions as a GL accountant because “you’re now a CPA.”
I agree with the rest of your statement, for the most part.