jmh530 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So on 5,000, I could put in like 2,000,000 in orders if I wanted to. I realize the numbers can change. As a secondary question, do they actually extend you money/credit or are you out if you lose any more than your initial capital? 5K on 2MM is .25%, which leaves little room for a move against you. Even if the leverage is lower, it’s still not much room - how are drawdowns handled, is it possible to have an unrealized 10K loss on a 5K initial contribution? Very helpful, thanks for your input.
After spending 10 years (6 years of trading) on a futures trading floor, I think the most important things to consider are your goals and your time horizon. Discretionary trading is a sweet gig (great hours, work with some cool people, chicks love traders) when you’re young because you can sacrifice financial stability for the chance to make some nice money. Chances are you’re 22-26, living in a studio/roommates, and your financial commitments aren’t that heavy. If you have a bad week, who cares. You’ll get’em next week. There are very few jobs that give you the opportunity to make a ton of money at such a young age. The problem with prop trading is that one day you’ll be 40 yrs old, married (probably divorced) with two kids, and have a hefty mortgage. The job itself just does not provide any stability and puts a tremendous amount of stress on your personal relationships. It’s just not worth the long haul. Margin calls make for bitter souls. I don’t mean to sound like a hater here. I made A LOT of money in short time. I’ve met some amazing people and I’ve got some stories that would make your head spin. But, the reality is that I’m 32 yrs old and I’m working on the CFA and CPA for a reason. The resume of a prop trader is pretty much useless. Firms think that you won’t work well with in a structured environment and if you ever try getting a job “in the real world”, nobody will have any clue what you did. Make your money and leave with every nickel. Never stick around for desert. Good luck, bro. -Jake
wow Jkey57 That just fires me up. Lets hear the stories! I am 23 and have a dog, lots of energy, sounds like i fit the bill. Yippee!
jkey57 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > After spending 10 years (6 years of trading) on a > futures trading floor, I think the most important > things to consider are your goals and your time > horizon. > Discretionary trading is a sweet gig (great hours, > work with some cool people, chicks love traders) > when you’re young because you can sacrifice > financial stability for the chance to make some > nice money. Chances are you’re 22-26, living in a > studio/roommates, and your financial commitments > aren’t that heavy. If you have a bad week, who > cares. You’ll get’em next week. There are very few > jobs that give you the opportunity to make a ton > of money at such a young age. > The problem with prop trading is that one day > you’ll be 40 yrs old, married (probably divorced) > with two kids, and have a hefty mortgage. The job > itself just does not provide any stability and > puts a tremendous amount of stress on your > personal relationships. It’s just not worth the > long haul. Margin calls make for bitter souls. > I don’t mean to sound like a hater here. I made A > LOT of money in short time. I’ve met some amazing > people and I’ve got some stories that would make > your head spin. > But, the reality is that I’m 32 yrs old and I’m > working on the CFA and CPA for a reason. The > resume of a prop trader is pretty much useless. > Firms think that you won’t work well with in a > structured environment and if you ever try getting > a job “in the real world”, nobody will have any > clue what you did. > Make your money and leave with every nickel. Never > stick around for desert. > Good luck, bro. > -Jake Sound advice…i’m 30 and wish I never took the job. It was fun (and at times highly lucrative), but it put my future goals on hold at least 3 years.
People who want to start trading, no matter what, if they were not able to get a more traditional trading position with a bank’s S&T desk or a hedge fund, start in prop trading. It is not a career and chances of success are low. Even if you are successful and survive your first year, when 70% of the people who joined with you are gone, you have to wonder if you were lucky or good. It’s certainly not a silver bullet lifestyle.
justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >It’s certainly not a silver bullet > lifestyle. Does this refer to coors lite or werewolves? Seriously though, I don’t know what this means.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > justin88 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >It’s certainly not a silver bullet > > lifestyle. > > Does this refer to coors lite or werewolves? > Seriously though, I don’t know what this means. I have never been more excited for an answer to a question than I am right now…
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > justin88 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >It’s certainly not a silver bullet > > lifestyle. > > Does this refer to coors lite or werewolves? > Seriously though, I don’t know what this means. Google is hard. http://www.answers.com/topic/silver-bullet - A quick solution to a thorny problem. - A simple remedy for a difficult or intractable problem: “There is no single silver bullet or panacea that will solve all the problems of Bay Area schools” (San Francisco Chronicle). - Idiomatic usage: The term has been adopted into a general metaphor, where “silver bullet” refers to any straightforward solution perceived to have extreme effectiveness.
So what you guys are saying is that prop trading can make you a lot of money, but your personal life gets boned and in the end, you realize you didn’t actually accomplish anything? This sounds like many jobs in finance…
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So what you guys are saying is that prop trading > can make you a lot of money, but your personal > life gets boned and in the end, you realize you > didn’t actually accomplish anything? This sounds > like many jobs in finance… Add a mention of survivorship bias, and yep that about sums it up.
@Ski2Much All I’m gonna say is most clearing houses that service locals throw the craziest Christmas parties you could ever imagine. Seriously. Those holiday parties make The Hangover look like a kindergarten art class. It would take a week to get all the “Stripper Glitter” out of my hair. To be young again…
@jkey57 Lots of the guys who had previously been very successful, but now had only more moderate returns expressed some of these frustrations. @LPoulin133 More often than not, I would put out a bunch of orders, especially at the open, that wouldn’t get filled hoping that I would get something on the cheap. $200,000 exposure following an economic number or the oil report wasn’t uncommon, but during the middle of the day (or really outside 9:30-10:30 and 3:30-4:00) we didn’t trade much at all.
jmh530 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @jkey57 Lots of the guys who had previously been > very successful, but now had only more moderate > returns expressed some of these frustrations. > > @LPoulin133 More often than not, I would put out a > bunch of orders, especially at the open, that > wouldn’t get filled hoping that I would get > something on the cheap. $200,000 exposure > following an economic number or the oil report > wasn’t uncommon, but during the middle of the day > (or really outside 9:30-10:30 and 3:30-4:00) we > didn’t trade much at all. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704392104575475781704072278.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLESecondNews
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So what you guys are saying is that prop trading > can make you a lot of money, but your personal > life gets boned and in the end, you realize you > didn’t actually accomplish anything? This sounds > like many jobs in finance… There are no transferrable skills in prop trading. Once you do that, good luck finding a FO gig elsewhere.
jkey57 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I made A > LOT of money in short time. I’ve met some amazing > people and I’ve got some stories that would make > your head spin. > > The > resume of a prop trader is pretty much useless. > Firms think that you won’t work well with in a > structured environment and if you ever try getting > a job “in the real world”, nobody will have any > clue what you did. > Make your money and leave with every nickel. Never > stick around for desert. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
former trader Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ohai Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > So what you guys are saying is that prop > trading > > can make you a lot of money, but your personal > > life gets boned and in the end, you realize you > > didn’t actually accomplish anything? This > sounds > > like many jobs in finance… > > There are no transferrable skills in prop trading. > Once you do that, good luck finding a FO gig > elsewhere. I want to be my own boss, I don’t want to go back into FO and have someone controlling my life, but that is just me.
Analti_Calte_Equity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > former trader Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ohai Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > So what you guys are saying is that prop > > trading > > > can make you a lot of money, but your > personal > > > life gets boned and in the end, you realize > you > > > didn’t actually accomplish anything? This > > sounds > > > like many jobs in finance… > > > > There are no transferrable skills in prop > trading. > > Once you do that, good luck finding a FO gig > > elsewhere. > > I want to be my own boss, I don’t want to go back > into FO and have someone controlling my life, but > that is just me. If you are among the 4% that survive, kudos to you.
My uncle ran the FOREX desk at Lehman Asia from 1990 - 2000 (yeah, insane time to run an Asian FOREX desk). He retired for a few years and then got offered a position with a semi-national Japanese bank. He is the president of the bank and essentially his job is negotiating with Japanese regulators in regards to limits and structure of the financial engineering desk at his bank. Yeah, he’s a BSD. I can proudly say I never asked him for a job, probably wouldn’t have gotten one anyway.
jmh530 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @LPoulin133 More often than not, I would put out a > bunch of orders, especially at the open, that > wouldn’t get filled hoping that I would get > something on the cheap. $200,000 exposure > following an economic number or the oil report > wasn’t uncommon, but during the middle of the day > (or really outside 9:30-10:30 and 3:30-4:00) we > didn’t trade much at all. and then between 10:30 and 3:30 is when scalpers make their highest % of winning trades. low volume, no direction, we clean up.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > Yeah, he’s a BSD. I can proudly say I never asked > him for a job, probably wouldn’t have gotten one > anyway. ??? He is just that good or you are just that bad?