Not supporting the flat tax per se, but the idea behind a flat tax is that you simplify the tax code and offer no deductions, allowances, credits, etc. Therefore, at 20% flat tax, if you earn $50K, you pay $10K in taxes. If you earn $100K, you pay $20K. You sell a security for $10K gain, you pay $2K (no matter how long you held it). No need for turbo tax. The idea behind the flat tax is that tax “avoidance” (as opposed to evasion) will be lower. People with high income and high wealth pay top dollar to exploit every single loophole. Though, the obvious counter argument to this is… scrap all the bells and whistles off the tax code and implement a simple tiered marginal tax code. Just as simple. If you think it’s difficult to calculate the 1st 100K of your taxes at 30%, the next 100K at 33%, and the last 100K at 35%, you don’t deserve $300K! Also, you don’t belong on this forum.
I’m not quite clear on how you connected my statement to this response but I’ll respond. > Is it your fault that low earners make less money? Is it God’s fault? < Is what God’s fault? That low earners is a synonym for those that make less money or that they make less money? >Its nobodys fault but the low earners themselves. 8 out of the 10 richest people in the world accumlated their wealth by self-made, only two Indian brothers by inheritance. < Thats a fantasitic tidbit of information. > If those 8 guys can succeed, anybody can. < I would say that if those guys can suceed, they are truly unique. I would take the opposite side of your statement. Almost no one could acheive what they have acheived. A flat tax is a terrible idea. The facts are that effective tax rates have fallen the most over the last 30+ years for those in the highest tax brackets, while those in the lower brackets have seen little relief, and in some ranges have seen effective tax rates go up. Over that same time period, the percentage of wealth owned by the top five, and one % of earners has only increased. It looks like the “high” tax rates on the top bracket hasnt stopped them from getting rich while the poor get poorer. Inflation adjusted, the average wage in this country is substatially lower than 40 years ago. Back to the flat tax tax idea - In the US, people often forget (or purpose neglect to acknowledge) that to offset the progressive rates in the income tax, we have many regressive taxes that place disproportionate burdens on low earners. Social security tax is regressive, high earners only pay based on wages up to ~106k. Sales tax? Same thing. With a larger % of income going to consumption and less savable or investable income, the sales tax is regressive. Gasoline tax? Yep. With gas a larger % of low earners income again, its regressive. Parking tickets, toll roads, car registration, excise taxes, license fees, DMV…all proportionally higher burdens on low earners and regressive. Taxes on dividends and capital gains are also regressive, considering that an overwhelming % of this income is earned by high wage earners and the tax rate is lower than the rates on earned income. So implementing a flat tax on earnings means that, in aggregate, low earners would face the HIGHEST total tax rate. For most low and middle class households, the primary residence is the largest financial asset by far, and guess what? The only one that carries a wealth tax every year.
… to expand on 1morelevel… effects of pollution, work hazards, etc are disproportionately placed on the poor (ability to pollute is reverse tax a.k.a. subsidy).
But the poor make such great scapegoats. After all, they’re poor because they’re lazy and criminal. I know because I know a bunch of lazy people and they’re almost all poor, and one of them shoplifted once. We should tax them more because it’s so annoying to have to put up with them.
i agree, bchad… basic economic principle: tax something and there will be less of it. tax people for being poor => fewer people will be poor.
aramin79 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i agree, bchad… > > basic economic principle: tax something and there > will be less of it. > > tax people for being poor => fewer people will be > poor. Yes. I just worked through the proof and your math is sound.
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But the poor make such great scapegoats. After > all, they’re poor because they’re lazy and > criminal. I know because I know a bunch of lazy > people and they’re almost all poor, and one of > them shoplifted once. > > We should tax them more because it’s so annoying > to have to put up with them. Please don’t make fun of the poor… I do agree that we should ask them to pick up their fair share of the taxation tab.
1morelevel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > aramin79 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > i agree, bchad… > > > > basic economic principle: tax something and > there > > will be less of it. > > > > tax people for being poor => fewer people will > be > > poor. > > > Yes. I just worked through the proof and your > math is sound. I more level, since you are not sincere to God, when I go church this Sunday, I will pray that God punish you by failing you twice in the next level.
Too late. Cleared them all.
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 1morelevel Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > aramin79 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > i agree, bchad… > > > > > > basic economic principle: tax something and > > there > > > will be less of it. > > > > > > tax people for being poor => fewer people > will > > be > > > poor. > > > > > > Yes. I just worked through the proof and your > > math is sound. > > I more level, since you are not sincere to God, > when I go church this Sunday, I will pray that God > punish you by failing you twice in the next level. Westboro baptist?
1morelevel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Too late. Cleared them all. I will instead pray to God that you either get crabs or impotence. Whichever punish you the most.
At the end of the day, countries like the USA have to pay for their cake. Unfortunate thing is the people who they want to pay the ‘rich’ will be moving there money overseas, like my buds who moved to switzerland from the uk as soon as they herd about the 50 percent bank bonus tax. I would love for the states to adopt some radical immigration polices. Imagine you told all the illegals if they bought a foreclosed house they would get a green card in 2 years? Or opening up the borders like they did in the early 1900’s. I have been browsing the net some interesting articles about how the states could easily support 1 billion people by 2100. Its the only way they will keep the current system growing and paying for their day to day operations or there is going to be some serious austerity packages comming up after the fall. I generally don’t support high taxes because the politicans put the excess funds in their pockets. The corruption is really eating away at the basic fabric of a tons of nations. I cant even to look at any one of them without wanting to punch them in the face.
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 1morelevel Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Too late. Cleared them all. > > I will instead pray to God that you either get > crabs or impotence. Whichever punish you the most. Too late. Have both.
Would pretty much render tax accounting worthless which would do wonders for the unemployment rate. Sorry to all those accountants and accounting grads that thought they survived the outsourcing wave, you’ve just been replaced by a single function a $2 calculator.
sundevl21 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Would pretty much render tax accounting worthless > which would do wonders for the unemployment rate. > Sorry to all those accountants and accounting > grads that thought they survived the outsourcing > wave, you’ve just been replaced by a single > function a $2 calculator. Don’t forget the tax attorneys and the bankers who come up with “tax advantaged” investments.
sundevl21 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Would pretty much render tax accounting worthless > which would do wonders for the unemployment rate. > Sorry to all those accountants and accounting > grads that thought they survived the outsourcing > wave, you’ve just been replaced by a single > function a $2 calculator. Nonsense, this is like: in order to preseve the waste management jobs, we should all litter and generate more garbage.
1morelevel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > AlphaSeeker Wrote: > > > > I will instead pray to God that you either get > > crabs or impotence. Whichever punish you the > most. > > > Too late. Have both. Ha! good sport, dude.
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Nonsense, this is like: in order to preseve the > waste management jobs, we should all litter and > generate more garbage. Yes! I knew throwing that Starbucks cup out the window the other day wasn’t entirely bad. You’re welcome Mr. Pickup Trash On The Side Of The Road Guy Who Still Has A Job Because Of Me.
higgmond Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > AlphaSeeker Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > Nonsense, this is like: in order to preseve the > > waste management jobs, we should all litter and > > generate more garbage. > > > Yes! I knew throwing that Starbucks cup out the > window the other day wasn’t entirely bad. You’re > welcome Mr. Pickup Trash On The Side Of The Road > Guy Who Still Has A Job Because Of Me. That was you?! The cup almost hit my windshield 
Back to the subject. Higher taxes benefits nobody in the long run…
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Please don’t make fun of the poor… I do agree > that we should ask them to pick up their fair > share of the taxation tab. That’s funny, they think the same thing about you!