fitrangnn Wrote: >However, one thing that I am sure, > they have ZERO management skill after biz school. That is changing. LEAD (leadership effectiveness and development) is a mandatory class now. Booth is enhancing its curriculum in the leadership/management area.
They’re not good at stock picking? Who is? Bill Miller is considered one of the best in the world, and look at his 10 year return.
Yeah but Miller is one of those value guys that got caught up in the financials trap late last year. I bet if you looked at his 10 year return after this recent market surge it looks much better.
Oh, yeah - definitely. But his long term return no longer qualifies him as a sage.
Do you have a particular sector of IM in mind? I personally think that Columbia has the strongest investment program in terms of equities/general stockpicking, and distressed investing. Upside -There are many adjunct professors who are fund managers/PMs during the day and teach at night so you receive a fantastic pragmatic view. -If you can get into the applied investing program there are a whole suite of small classes directly on investing. -Great speakers are coming in all the time- Ackman, Einhorn, Klarman, Greenblatt, and more. Downside -As fitrangnn noted, you probably won’t have the general management skills of an HBS grad. However, you may have more general management skills than a Booth grad. Its my observation that Tucker Max’s assessment of the University of Chicago applies to both undergrads and grads: “University of Chicago- where social lives go to die.”
soma80 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Do you have a particular sector of IM in mind? > > I personally think that Columbia has the strongest > investment program in terms of equities/general > stockpicking, and distressed investing. > > Upside > -There are many adjunct professors who are fund > managers/PMs during the day and teach at night so > you receive a fantastic pragmatic view. > -If you can get into the applied investing program > there are a whole suite of small classes directly > on investing. > -Great speakers are coming in all the time- > Ackman, Einhorn, Klarman, Greenblatt, and more. > > Downside > -As fitrangnn noted, you probably won’t have the > general management skills of an HBS grad. > However, you may have more general management > skills than a Booth grad. Its my observation that > Tucker Max’s assessment of the University of > Chicago applies to both undergrads and grads: > “University of Chicago- where social lives go to > die.” +1
soma80 - Unfortunately, I don’t have a particular sector of IM in mind just yet. There are still lots of aspects of IM that I find interesting, but with no experience I find it hard to narrow it down. To an earlier point, I think MBA and CFA is complimentary and not necessarily a substitute, at least not in my case. MBA probably will be my best, if not the ONLY option in trying to break into the industry. I just sat for level 3 last week and I hope I passed (have no idea how it went since there’s a lot of subjectivity in the material). But even if I do pass, I’ll have zero experience to show for, so I doubt any employers would even consider me in this economy. Plus, even with all the CFA program has taught me so far, I truly have a desire to go back to school to learn more about other subjects in the area of finance, management, etc. Thanks all for your input.
Is there a difference between asset management and investment management? Or do people just use these terms interchangeably?
interchangeable in this context.
soma80 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Do you have a particular sector of IM in mind? > > I personally think that Columbia has the strongest > investment program in terms of equities/general > stockpicking, and distressed investing. > > Upside > -There are many adjunct professors who are fund > managers/PMs during the day and teach at night so > you receive a fantastic pragmatic view. > -If you can get into the applied investing program > there are a whole suite of small classes directly > on investing. > -Great speakers are coming in all the time- > Ackman, Einhorn, Klarman, Greenblatt, and more. > > Downside > -As fitrangnn noted, you probably won’t have the > general management skills of an HBS grad. > However, you may have more general management > skills than a Booth grad. Its my observation that > Tucker Max’s assessment of the University of > Chicago applies to both undergrads and grads: > “University of Chicago- where social lives go to > die.” +2
markbot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The tops schools for IM are Booth (where modern > finance and portfolio theory were invented, > literally) and Wharton. > > Booth and Wharton have the highest street > credibility. This is why the Street is retarded. Don’t go anywhere that teaches modern finance theory. It’s flat out wrong and will cripple you as an investor. If you have to go in order to earn an MBA and break into the Street, tune out all the efficient market BS.
they also developed MM theory for corporate finance which even Warren Buffett uses…
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > markbot Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The tops schools for IM are Booth (where modern > > finance and portfolio theory were invented, > > literally) and Wharton. > > > > Booth and Wharton have the highest street > > credibility. > > This is why the Street is retarded. Don’t go > anywhere that teaches modern finance theory. It’s > flat out wrong and will cripple you as an > investor. If you have to go in order to earn an > MBA and break into the Street, tune out all the > efficient market BS. Tell that to David Booth!!!
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > markbot Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The tops schools for IM are Booth (where modern > > finance and portfolio theory were invented, > > literally) and Wharton. > > > > Booth and Wharton have the highest street > > credibility. > > This is why the Street is retarded. Don’t go > anywhere that teaches modern finance theory. It’s > flat out wrong and will cripple you as an > investor. If you have to go in order to earn an > MBA and break into the Street, tune out all the > efficient market BS. Lemme guess, Bromion: You’re a long only equity guy. Probably value tilt (or true value).
maratikus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fitrangnn Wrote: > >However, one thing that I am sure, > > they have ZERO management skill after biz > school. > > That is changing. LEAD (leadership effectiveness > and development) is a mandatory class now. Booth > is enhancing its curriculum in the > leadership/management area. better late than never
I had a very good experience at UC Berkeley. We had two student funds with real money, a long/short hedge fund and a >$1mm SRI fund. The Investment Club was small but filled with passionate people who liked to practice stock pitches. It was also easy to get selected to do the various investment case competitions at Cornell and UNC (at the bigger schools, it’s often very competitive to get selected). Each year we sent a group of people to have lunch with Warren Buffett, which was awesome. Classes were good, especially the equity valuation and behavioral finance classes (but an MBA is a lot more than classes). But perhaps the biggest element that helps students break into investment mgmt is the ability to do part time internships during the year at funds in SF. This is huge for people w/o previous research experience. It looks great on the resume and really helps with interviews. I have found that most employers don’t really care about your classes or extracurriculars at school, they care about your experience and how well you can pitch an investment idea. This helped me land a spot at a very good hedge fund. Plus Berkeley was just a lot of fun–really good people who are interesting and fun to hang out with (not so many finance dorks like myself).
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > markbot Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The tops schools for IM are Booth (where modern > > finance and portfolio theory were invented, > > literally) and Wharton. > > > > Booth and Wharton have the highest street > > credibility. > > This is why the Street is retarded. Don’t go > anywhere that teaches modern finance theory. It’s > flat out wrong and will cripple you as an > investor. If you have to go in order to earn an > MBA and break into the Street, tune out all the > efficient market BS. +10
westsidethatshowweride Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I had a very good experience at UC Berkeley. We > had two student funds with real money, a > long/short hedge fund and a >$1mm SRI fund. The > Investment Club was small but filled with > passionate people who liked to practice stock > pitches. It was also easy to get selected to do > the various investment case competitions at > Cornell and UNC (at the bigger schools, it’s often > very competitive to get selected). Each year we > sent a group of people to have lunch with Warren > Buffett, which was awesome. Classes were good, > especially the equity valuation and behavioral > finance classes (but an MBA is a lot more than > classes). > > But perhaps the biggest element that helps > students break into investment mgmt is the ability > to do part time internships during the year at > funds in SF. This is huge for people w/o previous > research experience. It looks great on the resume > and really helps with interviews. I have found > that most employers don’t really care about your > classes or extracurriculars at school, they care > about your experience and how well you can pitch > an investment idea. This helped me land a spot at > a very good hedge fund. > > Plus Berkeley was just a lot of fun–really good > people who are interesting and fun to hang out > with (not so many finance dorks like myself). That’s awesome insight. Thanks for sharing.
I think most of the schools mentioned are good. I’m doing similar research on schools because I’m looking to apply this fall to top programs and work in IM afterward as well. As others have mentioned, think about where you want to work and look for schools that are strong in that region. Because you lack finance experience, you’re going to need to meet and greet a lot of firms due to the fact that your resume won’t carry much weight when pitted against others who have prior experience. For this reason, I’d shoot for the obvious elite schools in large cities (Wharton, Columbia, Chicago, MIT), with a few “sleeper” picks for back-up (e.g. UT if you want to work in Texas, USC if you want to work in SoCal, Carnegie Mellon, and Cornell if you are looking in the northeast). Good luck. Out of curiosity, what work experience do you have now?
I would like to applaud everyone who is considering B-school and studying for the CFA. I heard a ridiculous argument on these forums the other day that pursuing an MBA and CFA makes you overqualified. But just my 2 cents on the subject. For someone considering a MBA or M.S or attending a school that would compliment your CFA charter. If you get into a Ivy league school then my advice should be ignored, but if you get into a school ranked 10-30 the diversifying your credentials will go further. Your CFA should get you in the door at a lot of IM firms, but the MBA from another field will push you up that ladder faster.