The only thing youre missing is the huge $$ youll drop on the MBA. Is the return worth it?
Didn’t he claim that 85% of the program was funded by his boss? Assuming a 100K ticket price, that’s only 15K cash to complete such a program, right?
sometimes the ROI from an MBA doesn’t come until much later in your career
Consider the two candidate pools:
-FT MBA students have quit their jobs to attend school and are banking on FT employment at graduation. They have no allegiance to their prior employers (with the exception of the sponsored students) and are free to pursue any opportunity they fancy. Moreover, one of the metrics by which the FT programs are measured is employment rate at graduation and 3 months after graduation. It behooves career services to get these students jobs (or interviews).
Employers that arrange for OCR want the path of least resistance. They go to the top schools (schools that have already done the screening for top candidates) and want to meet with students that are starving for a post-MBA role at their company. They’re not as excited by the prospect of interviewing someone that’s currently employed full-time and may or may not want to make the jump.
-PT students are employed full-time while attending school. Generally, the assumption is not that these students weren’t good enough for a FT program and opted to take the PT route, but that they are content with their current trajectory and the opportunities available to them but need a graduate business degree to continue advancing.
Above is a very simplistic view and not an exhaustive list of reasons why OCR is more tailored to FT students.
Fair points - you’re basically saying an employer would want to work with a FT student who is jobless and is therefore more desparate/motivated to interview and cooperate. Makes perfect sense.
But in terms of raw ability, do the PT MBA people subjected to the same curriculum, same professors, same textbooks and everything?
85% is from work so I’m looking at less than 20k total tuition spread out over three years plus I can get a tax deduction on that outlay. Compare this to 200k in loans at a FT with a 7% interest rate. I’d need a 40k raise per year above and beyond the PT to break even over a 15 year payback. I already make more than the exit surveys from FT booth. I just can’t get the numbers to line up. Plus I like my job and rarely work more than 50 hours. I don’t want to risk needing to take a high paying job to pay off a loan and then hating the position. I’ve worked with hard charging finance folks in the past and it isn’t for me.
I want your wife. I mean your life!
Fk the haters! Keep winning! Good job!
Who cares if your wife makes more than you do?? As long as you aren’t dependent on her largesse for your own survival and sustenance, that’s fine (I know I’m preaching to the choir, as far as the OP is concerned).
Women with lots of money (inherited or earned/accumulated) generally don’t care that much if hubby doesn’t make as much as they do. They care that hubby isn’t a lazy bum, that he is “presentable” to her social circle, and that he is attentive to their emotional state. That’s about it.
With kids, that can change a bit. If you decide that the kid needs a parent to stay with them most of the time, often the choice is the parent with the lower income. Be prepared for that if you go that route.
Thanks BChad for your kind words! My wife is the embodiment of the feminist movement–smart and successful on her own in a male dominated industry. She has had a lot of advantages in her life that she is acutely aware of but has put in the work to get where she is. I was intimidated dating an Ivy League, all-ivy league D1 athlete doctor from a wealthy family when we met but over time I’ve grown to appreciate her work ethic, intellect, and self-awareness to pay things forward given her advantages. I’m whipped, I know, but I’d hope others would be too. I come from a poor family (think food stamps for a period) due to a chronic illness (cancer) bankrupting my family. She is impressed that I have gotten as far as I have given that I self-financed my education and had to figure things out on my own. Empathizing with my situation and the work I put in to get where I am in life was one of the things that attracted me most to her.
She wants me to pursue a MBA because she values education and it is something I’ve told her I’ve always wanted to do. Plus, her family is all Ivy League educated and highly values education. I don’t care what her family or friends think per se, but she cares about her friends and family’s perceptions, and by association so do I, and therefore it benefits us both for me to go to Booth even if PT.
Kids are definitely on the horizon. She wants a big family and can’t control the realities of being on call as a cancer doctor. Plus, her work in treating cancer patients is frankly much more important to society than me trying to add alpha. So when push comes to shove her career is more important and I am perfectly fine with that. I’m not compromising just being rational about the situation. So I’ll stick with my job, go PT to learn and better myself, and stick with my solid 9-5 job and take care of kids down the road. I worked managing derivative overlay portfolios for many of the world’s largest investors globally out of college. Our business was growing rapidly at one of the larger asset managers and I was at the forefront of running structured portfolios before they were a big thing. I was in the markets trading in Europe, then the US, and then Asia. Passed my CFA quickly and thought I was on my way to be a high flying PM by the time I was 30. It sounded exciting when I got that job offer out of college and I was the envy of most of my classmates and in the end I was miserable. Working 4 AM (west coast trading in Europe) to 8 PM (executing in Asia) daily wore me down. I love work, love being in the markets, and love the intellectual challenge of our industry, but in the grand scheme of things it also matters very little to me. Work should be intrinsically engaging but it should also enable you to peruse more important things in life–relationships, health, hobbies, family, community involvement, and setting a good example for others. I’d hope that others on her weren’t so quick to judge but rather focus on the bigger picture.
Dang, sounds like you got it made. Congratulations and don’t screw it up.
Hi Jethrodane,
I haven’t posted in years and for some reason decided to click on the analyst forum email when I was in the process of answering nature’s call. After reading this I felt I would add in my two cents. I agree with a lot of what you said (how much money do we really need/your wife should be able to maximize her value and your self worth shouldn’t be derived from you making more money than her/a work life balance is important) and just wanted to add a different perspective. I always believe that a question is best answered when it is directed to the right audience. Unfortunately, analyst forum has a lot of indivduals who want to get into the flow of finance and succeed but aren’t qualified to really answer questions from experience. So, I think you will get better answers to your questions directing them to PM’s and senior analysts that are 5-15 years ahead of you rather than on an online forum where you are patting yourself on the back for your $175K and work life/balance. With that said, if I were you, I would skip the MBA. While the $175K sounds great it is measly for the world of finance and you are severely underpaid if you are adding substantial value as a PM. If the reason you are at your firm is you are building the platform and therefore the long term upside is substantial, you should think about staying after you get a pay raise. If it is not, you should immediately look for a new job. Senior analysts should be making $400-$750K easily and upwards of $1M when ownership stakes are involved. PM’s should make more than that. Spend an extra 10 hours a week networking, reading books, and adding value and you will more than compensate for not having an MBA while also being intrigued intellectually. And no, this does not require you to work 70-100 hours/week or odd hours. How do I know? I work in the industry and know a lot of people making that who have a great work/life balance. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. Just remember, ask the people who are successful and qualified to answer your questions. Ask the PM’s/analsyts who have a happy family and good work/life balance. If you don’t know any, talk to all the analsyts and PM’s and get to know them at the lunches/dinners you attend. While analyst forum is helpful, it’s not necessarily the best place to get great responses to major life decisions.
never happened
lol igor555 you don’t believe a lot of these stories/backgrounds.
Galvin has 1 AF point when he wrote to you. That seems to suggest that he created an account on AF just to tell you how much more money he makes than you.
It is true that if you are a Senior PM with decade+ experience at a sizeable fund where you can demonstrate your presence adds value, you should be getting more than 175k, but at least when I skimmed your info, that was not where I thought you were.
As for whether the MBA is helpful or not, is a different question. You are talking about a part time MBA from a name brand recognized school. And I believe your firm is going to pay that for you or most of it. That seems like a useful deal. It is possible that this is a retention strategy, given that if you take the firm’s money, you may be locked into staying for a time at whatever they decide to pay you or cough up the money they spent on your MBA.
I agree with igor’s point that PMs and Analysts who are raking in 450k and above with happy families and work life balances… I personally have not encountered many (any??), except perhaps some who have retired and are pretty much managing only their own money and perhaps that of a few friends and families.
Great post and I see no reason to leave your FT job to attend FT MBA. I have more respect for people who are able to maintain a full-time job, attend a PT program and family/life responsibilities.
Congrats!
bchad, I think you hit the nail on the head. I joined 10 years ago as I knew one day I would want to respond to jethro. The fact is I was very active when I first started and after I passed all levels I moved on. Who knows why my posting history was erased. I don’t think my comments should be judged by that but fine, maybe that helps you position it as though I’m trolling.
The thing is I think Igor’s and bchad’s comments prove my point which is that this is not the best place to get advice. People mock you when they can’t believe something instead of inquiring as to why and how. I know a lot of people with great work/life balances. I also know people who have crappy ones but that is entirely their fault. If you don’t know anyone with a good work/life balance, then that could be an indication you are in the wrong firm/environment. On another note, if you/igor/bchad really believe that no one in the industry that makes more than +200K/300K/400K (I think the salary amount is arbitrary but just throwing a number out there to have one) has a good work/life balance then why work in it. Seriously, why bother to strive to do better as that ensures you will be promoted, get paid more, and be miserable and have a family that hates you? What’s your strategy to deal with this, turn down promotions and pay raises? Quit in a few years when the responsibility increases? If so, you may want to save that MBA to switch careers.
I didn’t say anything regarding my salary but I have worked in both NY and Chicago and have a fairly good idea of pay ranges. I have also seen people doing the same job at the same firm getting paid drastically differently and they weren’t aware of it just b/c they didn’t test the market enough, talk to others enough, or advocate for themselves enough. Again, I blame them but hopefully, jethro now has a better idea of what is attainable or what he should be working towards.
I do agree with bchad on a company normally locking you in if they pay for your MBA. I would also highlight that you normally don’t get bumped up in pay as much during and after the MBA b/c they are taking care of your MBA expenses and they know it. Instead of locking yourself into a low paying company for a few years, maximize your value first before pursuing the MBA. Particularly seeing as though you aren’t using it to change careers. If you are really interested in learning you can do that without the MBA as you get to interact with a ton of people on the job and can supplement that with a ton of activities in Chicago. For example, the chicago council on global affairs can provide you with opportunities to intellectually engage.
I’m not saying your plan is horrible. I’m just saying there are other ways to approach this depending on your goals/objectives.