“As for your comment regarding why I would continue to do the CFA, well, I stated earlier in another post on page 1 that I would be delighted to get into Business Development or an Analyst position in corporate finance.”
Great, now we can agree that the CFA is not a waste of time!!
I would recommend that you focus your time (and energy) on putting in atleast 350 hours to study for the exam in December. I would also suggest that you study as if you have never taken the test (instead of just focusing on what your weak areas were this time).
Getting a CPA (or the canadian equivalent) is just as good as getting a mechanics degree or some other vocational type certification from Devry, et al. There will always be plenty of those jobs, but they pay dog shit. I have 3 accountants and they make 50-60K per year. And there will always be a need for them, sure. There are exceptions if you make partner at a big firm but that is a small probability. And you (bleach) lack the perdsonality skills to attain partner status. Because CPA work is terrible, many try to convert into becoming a CFO or something which again is not easy.
Not that a CFA is any guarantee toward ER/PM or similar position but it may help. And one bonus cycle on the buy side or even sell side is probably at least 3-4 years worth of salary as a run-of-the-mill CPA.
I actually thing getting a CPA is valuable for the knowledge but would never want to be an accountant. I’d rather work in a restaurant.
Also your comment about the most successful people not having CFAs is irrelevant. Most of the senior financiers are older and CFA became more prevalent in recent years. So the fact the Buffett or Paulson or whomever does not have their CFA does not mean anything to me. The fact is today on the buy side, the vast majority of younger analysts and PMs and those entering research have their charter, So if you plan to work in this field it may become more of a requirement.
So I would advise younger persons who are considering finance as a career to start cracking the books as it may take you several years to get the designation.
saying CFA is a complete waste of time and then saying you are a level I candidate are two contradictory opinions. Why are you doing it if it’s a waste of time? From one of your replies, to be an analyst or BD. So you must agree that these 3 letters provide some value in those jobs. Otherwise, drop out of the CFA program.
There are a LOT more and better-paying longshoremen jobs in Los Angeles than there are CFA jobs. I still would not want to be a longshoreman. Go figure.
I truly enjoyed Level I and II curriculum topics. For a non-finance professional like me, it was a whole new world and way of thinking. I was learning about concepts that most of you probably learnt in college or earlier, like TVM, assets and liabilities, YTM, rent-seeking, NOI, CAPM, how to look for suspicious stuff in financial statements, etc. And I have only read the outline of topics for Level III so far, but it promises to be another corker. I can’t wait to see what the hell Behavioral Finance is.
Your OP was purportedly also for older professionals. For someone like me who is one, CFA CBOK in itself is pretty valuable, even if it doesn’t help me break into finance. I don’t know of any other program organized quite like CFA (maybe the new copycat ones like IMCA’s CIMA or Indian AICFA or something.)
I just can’t get this excited about becoming a CA, CMA, CGA, whatever. As someone else said, these are truly cog-in-the-wheel training programs.
Bleach, do you know Anthony Robbins? Call him up and he will give you a private session on stage for UPW As Robbins uses to say: Do You wanna be right or Do You wanna be happy?
Forgot to mention: Have Canadians now also started to think that North America is the center of the universe? For the CFA is quite an asset in APAC and EMEA. If you ever get across the ocean to enlighten your horizon, then ask some bankers in Frankfurt, Geneva, Zurich and London what they think about CFA. Do the same inParis, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai and Shanghai.
haha 300,000 candidates… that’s funny. I wrote in toronto and I would love to see 300,000 candidates packed into the direct energy centre…
one thing you are forgetting is, especially in a corporate, even if the job says they prefer ca/cma/cga or whatever, they will still consider you with a cfa designation, in fact it might even put you to the front of the pack.
a person with the charter gets mad respect from CAs, and we all know that for good corporate roles, the CAs are the gatekeepers.
From my experience, CMAs/CGAs (which are great designations) are unfortunately not held in as high regard by CAs, so trust me when I say this… if you will be considered for a role if you have a CMA or a CGA, they will also consider you if you have a CFA beside your name.
I’m not sure how you managed to convince yourself that you are actually doing the ‘younger generation’ a favour by expressing your anger. This kind of self-delusion enables guys like yourself to spend a lot of time being pissed off because they are so sure they stand on the moral high ground.
Instead of being angry and bitter you’re the white knight that is fighting the good fight for the naive youngsters in the big bad and unfair corporate world?
Your perspective is mainly just incorrect but where it is not, is heavily biased by your own (1 persons) experiences. It must be so comforting to think that the only reason you weren’t hired is because your mum and dad don’t live in *insert wealthy neighbourhood* and you didn’t go to *insert school*. Although there is an element of that out there, man up and take some goddamn responsibility for yourself.
If you think people are growing up these days thinking that the world is one giant group hug I can assure you that is not the case.
Everybody knows it’s more like one giant circle-jerk haha
There would be more requirement of construction workers or IT jobs or Laundry jobs. While I honestly believe that each job has its merits and demerits, doing a course based on # of jobs is plain simple nonsense. Why would a guy needing a mechanic job do a certificate course in IT or Laundry?
CFA has a purpose and so does all other certifications/courses you claimed better! When the purpose is different there is no point comparing. Apples vs Oranges as they say!
Oh my god! My PhD in economics is totally USELESS! I know this because I haven’t finished my undergrad yet!
Ugh. Apples and oranges my friend. Yes we can take the accounting route and have an easier time getting a job, but we don’t want to be accountants. So we don’t.
I always thought the passing rates for the CFA Level I were so low because everyone outside of real finance professionals thinks a CFA gets you a job paying 500k/year. Keep dreaming. But on the other hand most small hedge funds I have seen (<20mil) are run by guys with rich parents that have rich friends and they in turn hire their college buddies who have rich parents and rich friends. If they don’t blow it up in the first four years (avg life span of a fund) they have done something worthwhile. If they need to hire someone from the outside it is not going to you bleach, sorry to burst your bubble. They need to hire someone who can come in and add value (right away I might add) and teach them something they don’t know whether it is C++ or a sector of the market that is hot and they know nothing about. I am sure they can hire the equivalent of you just through their group of friends. Unfortunately so is life.
Now what you can do…
Pursue the designation. Maybe it wil not help now or even within the first few years but you gain points by just working hard and impressing your colleagues. I only have a CAIA designation at the moment but it helps. My colleagues respect me for taking the time to study and passing. If they have a question relating to commodities or private equity they ask me, they don’t go looking around. My Managers see this. I gain points. When the chopping block is about to come down at the end of the day, I might not be one of them because I add value. I got that through the designation. Don’t reach for the stars. It might take you 7-10 years to get that ENTRY level position you so desire but start small. Maybe go to a service provider to the finance industry and work your way in that route. You can’t fight the friends and family deals that are out there but if you work hard, you can slowly work your way in. I have.
OK Bleach, if your point was simply that people might find an accounting job more easily than a typical “CFA”-type job, then I don’t think anybody would disagree. There are also more job openings for medical lab technicians than for doctors. So, should everyone stop pursuing medical school too?
I bet a lot of us would also agree that there are some people pursuing the charter who expect that it alone will be the a key to getting into a new career and that is just not how it works. Yeah, some of those people (maybe even a lot) will have to re-adjust their focus and aspirations and maybe pursue other education/training/experience to land a job they are satisfied with.
However, all of that in no way supports your thesis that obtaining the CFA Charter is a waste of time.
In my own experience, I have found the whole process to be hugely beneficial: I learned a lot, and it helped me into my current role in direct inter-corporate investment. Yes, my engineering background (applicable to the main industries we are investing in) also played a role, but working toward the CFA Charter had definitely helped my candidacy for the role. I think the key is (and pretty much everyone agrees), the Charter is only one element in a complete package and one can’t expect miracles from that alone. It is a competitive world, and to get a really good job, you have to work very hard, build relationships and just generally hustle.
The other thing I would echo is a previous poster’s observation that Chartered Accountants here in Canada (CAs) have a lot of respect for the CFA Charter, I have observed this first-hand on quite a few occasions.
As Robbins uses to say: Do You wanna be right or Do You wanna be happy?