touche.
i’ve been decent BChad. got my charter in april. work’s been busy enough. my son arrived in December so i’ve had much less time for AF than i once had. he’s a good kid so i can’t complain.
how about you? based on your AF point score, i’d say you’ve continued to be AF-active over the past 9 months…
I have had the opposite experience to most here (but I don’t think my experience is necessarily representative). I stayed away from finance because I thought it was full of a-holes. In my mid 30s I left my job teaching at a university to enter finance and found my prejudices were not entirely founded. My boss is a working class dude with no degree but whip smart and an awesome guy with a strong moral compass. He is kind and supportive but, because he made it up rough the ranks through hard work, he believes everyone can still do the same and places little value on the CFA. I got lucky to get him as a boss but I think the reality of this economy is that there are thousands of people who want an FO job at an IB and almost all of them are experienced and qualified so the charter is necessary but not sufficient to get a job. It is becoming a base level qualification to put you on at least equal footing with other candidates.
Bleach, don’t expect the people you meet who are high ranking to give you the normal pleasantries such as hi how are you’d. This is more like the army. The generals aren’t going to give you anything in the way of pleasantrs until you have proven yourself. Suck it up and let the generals boss you around. Once you have earn your stripes, they will soften and become normal people again.
I work for a Big 4 firm and I can tell you that almost every audit associate I know hates it. Most people just do it for a couple years to get their CPA to move to a less shitty accounting job with better pay.
Working in accounting is a very low risk and relately low reward profession. There are TONS of decent, but not well paying jobs out there and it’s incredibly recession resistant. It’s pretty hard to be an involuntarily unemployed CPA.
Thanks for the response. I understand all your points, but I’m going to try and keep networking until I finally break in. The sad part is, I can’t even get an interview for treasury or back office roles with the designation. As my job search has progressed, I’ve opened up to a lot more roles. In my mind, I don’t really give a shit about front/mid/back office or which bank pays the better bonus. I just want to become involved with securities in some manner. The turning point in my mind was when our client was explaining a vanilla interest rate swap to a partner in my group.
Some suggestions:
First, CFA is AWESOME for learning modern asset management techniques. Its not everything you need to know, but its the best structured program I have encountered. I have had little difficulty discussing advanced portfolio construction techniques with senior PMs at Blackrock, AQR, Bridgewater, Frankling Templeton, and T Rowe Price. I help raise capital for these firms and these guys talk to me b/c I send them institutional grade money ($100s of mil to a couple bil). I learned alot of the theory and stat as an undergrad, but the CFA program was helpful in putting it all together.
What the CFA program so far has not done for me, is help me get interviews. Quite frankly, no one out there understands it. Few hiring managers appreciate what it means - unless they themselves have a CFA and they did it recently enough that they know what you know given you passed all 3 CFA exam levels.
In addition to the CFA I just completed an MBA at a Top 5 School (I did NYU Stern) that is renowned for Finance (its useless for anything else, 70%+ of graduates have a Finance specialization). Having had the chance to sit in classes taught by Nobel Prize winners, I got to see people with Ivy League backgrounds try to understand modern asset management techniques in the IM geared classes. Consistently, all of the people who did well in those classes were in the CFA program or had CFA Charters already.
If you need help getting interviews, do an MBA at the most prestigious university in the city in which you wish to live. It will get you the call back - but MBA programs are unstructured beyond teaching the very basics (eg, teaching you the CAPM/SML) and are not a good place to learn how to approach IM. MBA programs are DESIGNED to get you interviews (not kidding here), not teach you techniques. I would describe it as making you conversational about a topic - with the implication you research it further if interested.
If you need actual working knowledge about IM, do the CFA.
If you want to have no life and impress pyschopaths with your committment, do both an MBA and a CFA - but you gotta finish before you turn 40 lol. I should warn you though, people will think you’re insane and masochistic.
PS: If you think its tough going from a Bud Fox type background into a WASPy culture, imagine what’s like being a dark skinned minority living in southern Connecticut trying to network with established people in New Englang lol. You should see the negative reaction I get - BEFORE I say anything (they think I’m trying to mug them or something lol). Oddly, I do extremely well with the Hedgies (respect for muggers? lol) and poorly with MF managers lol. None of the MFs will call me back - but so far all of the HFs have at least called me back when I attempted to interview. Haven’t got anything so far, but I’ve been pleased at my ability to at least get a call (which many of my friends have failed at). Ironic that the MFs are harder to talk to than the HFs given everyone seems to want a HF job.
So I feel some of what you are saying, and the CFA was defintely not designed to help someone straight out of college to get a job, but you got to give it credit for what it does do. And btw, for the difference in costs (I spent $150k for MBA, $3k total all in for my CFA), so far the CFA has been a better value. You should rename yourself, I will call you Blue Horseshoe from now on.
Sounds like this sissy crybaby needs a beatdown. Got my Lugz laced up and ready for a stomping. Now where you at pussy!
i’m shutting this thread down with the following post…
the boy should just watch some kardashians…he’ll learn…
In case anyone missed it, this ‘old hand’ at the business is not even six months out of school - here’s a post from Apr '11 where he explains that Jan '12 will be his last semester.
The “younger ones” that you’re giving advice to…I mean, what group of people would that be? High schoolers? Tweens? You’re three months out of school. You’ve been on what sounds like a handful of interviews in a single city. Do you think maybe that your experience might be a little bit limited for you to be making these sweeping proclaimations about a professional designation? Maybe?
Bleach - you make life colorful.
Did the CMA route, almost killed myself, F accounting!
Now in Business Development in financial services and much happier, I rather face rejection constantly then become a glorified spreadsheet monkey.
You’re an idiot, once you have achieved any of those designations you are no longer entry level. Most entry level accountants make anywhere between 35-40k per annum, CA’s don’t make nearly as much as CFA charterholders even in Canada. Long time CFA’s in AM or PWM can easily pull seven figures, I personally know a few people at that level.
Are you even employed?
“In the end I would still like to remain with my original statement; younger candidates should consider the CA/CGA/CMA and/or MBA route…”
I would agree with this statement. I completed the CPA/MBA directly after undergrad (all paid for by my employer in corporate accounting). I finished up the CMA (paid by new employer who gave me a nice raise) and other job related certifications last year. The Institute of Management of Accountants has a very detailed and yearly salary survey for those interested.
I am now 27 and work for the federal government (another nice raise) doing cost reporting and analysis for the largest finance and accounting organization in the world. Currently on a pay scale $70-90K (Indianapolis), and will get promoted in a few years. All the supervisors make over 100K with federal benefits and pension.
Signing up for June 2013 CFA because I have extra time and want more knowledge. Not sure how this compares to you almighty CFA candidates but I am happy with my decisions.
Probably because we find it hillarious…
Anyhow, I had a CMA for awhile before I stopped paying dues. Studied six weeks total and didn’t learn so much, it was part of a company wide initiative for the firm I was working for to increase CMA’s within thier corp finance dept. That being said, the jobs you get with a CMA make you want to slit your wrist on your way to work every morning. Whereas with my shiny new CFA designation, I have fewer, higher quality options where I don’t want to hang myself until at least lunch.
I lol’d. Are you in Canada? The CMA thing seems more prevalent up there. I’ve barely heard of it in NYC, but maybe that’s because I’ve never done accounting stuff.
It’s definitely bigger in Canada. I got it while working for Johnson & Johnson’s corporate finance in NJ (accounting focused financial organization). A decent number of CPA’s in the US will pick it up as they transition from Big 4 to corporate side reporting and analysis.
In India , almost all CA are pursuing CFA
CARP!
CA/CGA/CMA - I have never heard of these designations. Maybe its because I work in the investment world in the U.S. and only really know/care of CFA/CPA/CFP/FRM & the actuarial designations (ASA/FSA, etc…)
I am just reading this thread for the first time. This kid seems bitter as hell. Looks like someone couldn’t pass Level 1 and decided he wants to be a salesman instead.
Based on my experience on this forum, most people from India are pursuing every certification they can find.
You wouldn’t know them in the US because CA is the rest of the world version of the CPA (and not really offered in the US), and the CMA and CGA are essentially watered down accounting certs for people who don’t/can’t get a CA. Again, not very common in the US but you occasionally see a CMA now and again. Almost all accountants in the US just have the CPA and call it a day. I know a few CAs in the US, but they’re all Canadian trained and moved here with their jobs.