Rick Ross says push this thread to the limit
Alright, we’re getting closer to 10 pages! Sweet! I didn’t feel like bchad attacked me. We disagree on some things, but he definitely adds a lot to this forum. Not much else to say about that.
I have a pretty damn good job in a pretty damn good buyside firm. Everyone at my level is expected to have a top-10 MBA or CFA, and they often have both (or making progress towards it like in my case… it has been made very clear there is a glass ceiling without it). The CFA adds credibility if you’re on the sell-side or on the buy-side dealing with clients. It may not close the deal, but if you’re a 25-35 year old talking to large institutional clients as the investment authority, it sure doesn’t hurt to have a Harvard MBA and CFA on your resume. They’re not going to have you manage money just because of it, and many may not give a damn about the letters, but there is a decent chance you’ll have some credibility walking in the door. Lots of things in life are about going through the motions. I personally think CFA examination process offers quite a bit of value and isn’t entirely fluff.
OK, enough! To clarify my earlier post - this is an ATTACK: greengrape Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m so tired of this troll. He either hasn’t read > at all what others have posted, or is just totally > blinded by his own beliefs. I’m starting to bet he > doesn’t have the CFA charter at all, and > failed/gave up somewhere in the middle and is > discouraging everyone else. > > > bromion Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Wow, lots of hate on this thread based on weak > > straw man and ad hominem attacks. > > > > As you can see reading the thread, people who > > actually work in the industry find the material > > unrelated to real jobs that people actually > want. > > People in the industry have clearly posted the > material IS relevant to jobs people want. > > > > Maybe it helped them get the job, maybe not, > but > > that’s not the point. > > It clearly HAS allowed people to land those jobs. > At least 3 people have said it point-blank. > > > > The point is that there are > > lots of things that “might” help someone get a > > job, and some of those things are more > efficient > > than others. The CFA exams are a very > inefficient > > way to get a job, that’s all – and if it helps > in > > getting a job at all, it’s much more likely to > be > > because of signaling value (work ethic, some > level > > of intelligence) than because someone actually > > learned something of relevance. > > Trying to argue what’s the “most efficient” way to > land a job is useless. Different things work for > different people, but the CFA is the one standard > that is the same. I went through 3 dozen > interviews in the last 4 months, and the CFA > curriculum helped me nail all the technical > questions, and got me the Equity Research job. > Without the studying, I never would have got it. > > > > And let’s be > > honest: most people here have no experience in > the > > industry and just post tired, recycled comments > > about top school, pass your CFA exams, blah, > blah, > > blah. You really don’t know, and the comments > show > > that clearly. > > This just shows your total ignorance. > > > > Otherwise, your hateful posts will be > > construed as just coming from another CFA fan > boy > > who enjoys having wet dreams about studying > GIPS, > > etc. I’ll save you the suspense: nobody cares. > > I’ll save everyone else: Just ignore this troll. > > Isn’t it obvious enough he’s a sad person with no > life when he has to come onto a CFA forum, and > talk about how useless the program is? And then > ignore all other comments proving him wrong? > > Troll. > > Just move on people…
WWQQQBEED?
Yes, that post above was an attack, and it’s best if we can avoid calling each other trolls, but here’s what you wrote. Iginla2010 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This should be a platform for mature professionals > to have healthy discussions, despite a difference > in opinions. In fact, difference of opinion is > very important from a learning standpoint. But > when someone with a serious identity crisis with > no substantial contribution comes in here and > starts calling names to a member like bromion, the > decline in the standards of this forum becomes > very evident. I hope BChad is taking note of this. > This platform has been utilized to bounce-off > useful ideas from some intelligent minds and > difference of opinions has been welcomed in the > past. Please don’t make this a stone-pelting > event. > > That’s all I have to say! What did you mean when you said “I hope BChad is taking note of this?” I’m not Chad, the forum moderator. And yes, I can disapprove of name calling and lots of stuff like that, but I’m not sure what you think I’m supposed to do here. It reads more like you were saying that I was responsible for at least some of the attacks you are talking about, and/or have an identity crisis, and that confused me or at least one of me. I do reserve the right to be grumpy from time to time, and I when personally challenged, I will often respond feeling free to take the gloves off, but most people who know me here and elsewhere know that I don’t attack people unless specifically provoked.
I meant Chad, not BChad. My bad. I meant to say that I hope the moderator is taking note of this. As I said, I enjoy your posts and find them very informative.
keep pushing this to the limit
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Opportunity cost? what would you do INSTEAD of > CFA? How can you measure CFA opportunity cost > without alternatives? Comp_sci_kid, if you go back a few pages in this thread, you’ll see that blackbelt had posted that instead of CFA exams, he would’ve spent time doing independent research and sending his samples to companies. I tried this approach and it worked for me to get initial responses to my applications. However, my samples were crap, I recognized that though.
Bchad and bromion my both exceptional posters. I’m glad iginla clarified, because your post read like you were calling out bchad. I think we should continue to Ross it up and head to the limit. CFA, like anything, is a value that lies in the beholder. I hope most people learn some things from taking the exams. I know I have.
I love that wrap up Jcole… to the limit!!!
is that the end? NO!!!
If we want to give a somewhat objective assessment of the significance of the CFA material to CFABLACKBELT & bromion’s day work, then they can describe their investment process, sector specialization, etc… and we can direct to the associated material, if any, of the said role.
i think its funny when old people fight on the internet
SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i think its funny when old people fight on the > internet ROFL. This made my day.
Keys Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If we want to give a somewhat objective assessment > of the significance of the CFA material to > CFABLACKBELT & bromion’s day work, then they can > describe their investment process, sector > specialization, etc… and we can direct to the > associated material, if any, of the said role. That’s fair, but I’m not able to get too detailed because I signed an NDA and I respect my employer. I evaluate companies across all industries and most geographies for inclusion in a long short portfolio. This effort encompasses both debt and equity, but primarily the latter (although the research process is not that different between asset classes). I am looking to make investments in sound companies trading at low valuations based on certain criteria (which I can’t reveal) – it is a bottoms up, fundamentally driven, value approach to investing that involves having a deep understanding of what makes businesses tick. This investment effort requires a lot of speed and targeted knowledge because the markets move fast; it is not the “standard” process employed by many firms of spending weeks on a particular company before a decision is made. If a company does not look promising in 3 hours from a high level value perspective, then it gets chucked. I have an extreme focus on efficiency because time is the most limiting factor in finance; to that end, I think studying for the CFA is hugely inefficient, and the material and approach taught in the curriculum is likewise very inefficient (it it works at all for producing alpha – it has always struck me as a beta approach to investing, which is fine for some applications). The fund I work for has outperformed the market for 15 years straight using this proprietary criteria (I’ve only been here for 2.5 years and can’t even begin to take credit for that performance). There isn’t any DCF or earnings modeling (which I consider almost useless, having worked on the sell side for 2.5 years). Instead, we use proprietary valuation criteria that isn’t covered in the CFA (or anywhere else that I am aware of). I know that this system works well because when I travel and meet management teams, they usually comment on how we “get it” versus the rest of the noobs in the market (if you’re wondering, management hates talking to most investors, because it is usually a waste of their time since people ask the wrong stuff, albeit an obligation for them). This is only one way to skin a cat, but it happens to be one of the very best ways (objectively by performance). For what it’s worth, a lot of the most successful funds in the world seem to use a similar approach from what I have gathered meeting other investors and interviewing people who worked at places like Goldman prop, Highbridge, TPG, etc., etc… If you want to tweak your EPS model to add a penny to earnings, etc., etc. and utilize EMH / CFA style knowledge to grind out 10-12% a year in returns, then the curriculum probably has some value for you (among many other things – I would argue that the currciulum is probably best suited to someone who works at an RIA or similar and needs a very broad but not deep or specialized asset management skillset). It has almost no value for what I do, though. If there is one thing this thread clarified for me, it is how grateful I feel to have the opportunity to learn this kind of system. I still maintain that the curriculum is just about useless if your goal is to become a multi-millionaire self made investor that continually beats the market (hedge fund manager or whatever), but I see now that it may have a lot of use for people with other goals. For what it’s worth, I don’t know any serious investors (in the strictest sense of the word) who believe the CFA is really worthwhile, and that is based on a lot of conversations. Frankly, I was surprised that so many people think it is the end all (or at least highly valuable), but I guess there is a huge bias here for obvious reasons (people put that much time into anything and they’ll feel obligated to defend it, I suppose).
because there are no limits to how many cheese puffs you can throw at each other’s faces
push this to 7
Maybe the CFA curriculum material on statistics is relevant, for example for examining performance records for statistical significance.
Captain Windjammer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- i agree on statistics because i feel like this is the first time in my life statistics have been relevant to my job (they obviously are in ffb). additionally, it helps one to understand the process and work involed in masters’ and phd programs where the objective is to support your thesis with relevant data. i love that i can talk statistics with students and teachers whose work basically comes down to the data sets; their generation and results.