Hi kim, I was born and raised in Hong Kong, so I am technically local 
.
I avoid applying for jobs that require papers 1,7,8, because those mostly require a couple of years of experience anyway. I mostly apply for internship-like entry jobs.
But that’s a good point, getting those licenses certainly wouldn’t hurt. Thanks!
I have been rethinking my position lately. Is a career in finance really the best path to undertake? Am I blindly following the crowd? Are there any other industries that might offer better opportunities? Those are the questions I have been asking myself.
I think the third question is the key to deciding whether a career in finance is the right choice. But I am too uninformed to have an answer at this point.
May I ask how I should go about relocating to a different country? I definitely wouldn’t mind working in Singapore, or some mainland Chinese city, as long as I can get a foothold in the industry.
Never considered applying to Moody’s or S&P, because they hardly ever come up on jobs sites. That’s surely something worth trying. Thanks dude!
warp9, one thing you have to realize is the even though locals in HK have a great advantage over expats, almost all of the new business is related to China, which means they want native Mandarin (and not just fluent). The sad part is that I don’t even think it’s about proficiency, but about race/culture.
Dal and ADISON2000, you guys seem to have similar background/situations as myself… do you mind shooting me an email (my username at gmail) to exchange some notes?
I understand why you would need native Mandarin for private banking or even investment banking, but does it go the same way for Sales and Trading?
Sales? What kinds of Sales you want to do? If you want to sell a product, you must be a licensed rep. in HK and you don’t pass paper 1,7,8, what you can sell? And what do you want to trade? Can you tell us more specifically?
And don’t always dream about relocation. Can you tell me why firms don’t employ someone locally but employ you in HK and relocate you to other countries? What’s your selling point?
Trading jobs appeal to me most. I am not so unrealistic as to believe that I could reach that goal in one step. So my original plan was to get an internship-like entry job assisting a sales/trading team, and see where I can go from there. From the job requirements I saw, and what I have learned from job agents, those jobs do not require you to have passed 1,7,8. For the most part, they just want you to be able to use v-lookup, pivot table, and perhaps some vba.
I also thought about playing to my strengths by trying to break in via a credit/market risk or research role, since my academic background - in statistics and economics - was well suited for those two types of jobs. Well, needless to say, the strategy didn’t quite work and I now resort to applying for BO settlement jobs.
I know it’s a long shot trying to hop over to FO from BO, but I thought at least it would be better than being stuck in an industry that is completely irrelevant.
The sad thing is that there is no shortgage of very qualified people applying to FO jobs at MNCs in HK. So unless you have an Ivy league degree, are near native at all of English, Mandarin, and Cantonese, can read and write Chinese, and have relevant experience (preferrably in NYC, London, or HK/China/Japan), your resume will just go to the trash bin. For every job opening, there are 100+ job applicants so the competition is fierce. It really helps to have an “in”, either a very unique background or very strong personal relationships with the powers that be. Having a generic MSc in Stats from a Canadian school will not make you stand out from other applicants who hold Ivy league degreees (or top European schools).
If you are going to work in the BO, you might as well stick to your industry and think of another way to strike it rich. The BO is like an elephant graveyard where dreams go to die. No one makes it out alive (ie: to the FO) and the ones that do didn’t make the jump because they spent time in the BO. Most likely, they were able to make the jump because of connections. IMHO, I don’t think your strategy works as banks don’t like to hire non-24 year olds as entry level grunt workers. By the time you’re 3-4 years into your BO stint you would be burnt out already. Lastly, I would argue that it makes you _less_ attractive for any potential FO openings if you have a BO stint on your resume. Having BO experience just doesn’t bode well for pedigree and prestigue in this day and age.
I’m sorry if I come off as harsh or frank but that’s the way that I see it.
I am probably not in the position to doubt you, but I find it very hard to believe that everybody working in FO now possess all those qualities you just mentioned - having worked in NYC or London at some point in time, with Ivy League degrees and nearly native in English, Mandarin, and Cantonese.
I am sure there are locals working in FO with local degrees and less than fluent English. In fact, somebody here said a lot of HKUST students actually ended up in FO at bulge bracket firms. My philosophy is - if those people could do it, then I could do it too. I might need to work on improving my weak points, but with time, I should be able to get there as well. I hope my faith isn’t misplaced.
I have been holding out on replying this post for sometime as I see a lot of people have jumped on it and raised many good points.
There are many points already raised which I can assure you it’s correct. From the connections you have to knowing Mandarin and English on a proficient level.
The advice I give you comes from experince of searching for jobs in Hong Kong. I have been there and done that. Similar to you, I am also from Toronto.
Hong Kong do have opportunities, but they are very very hard to come by. Most of the IB position goes to people that have interned at other IB banks or Ivy league. They do not open up to somoene that just applies and have no experience. Most of the Equity research roles goes to CA and CPAs with the CFA Charter. Sales and Trading jobs are even more rare and those are usually hired straight out of school on rotational programs. There goes your major 3 FO type of roles, they will certainly not look at your resume.
What you should target for is Middle Office positions. But almost all BO and MO roles wants you to have some type of accounting background, and that’s why a BBA or BCom is much more beneficial to you and not a Quant Background. There are just not many jobs that requires a quant background. The amount of jobs that overflows in Hong Kong are mostly geared towards accounting or accounting background.
Your foot in the door will be to write your CPA exams, coupled that with the CFA then you might have a chance. Still a slim chance at FO jobs.
And to give you a perspective of this. In a captial markets of a bank, combine all the FO, MO and BO roles together. Out of 100 positions, 80 positions will be accouting background related. 10-15 positions will be CFA/CA (investment related) and 5 positiosn wil be quant related.
You don’t need a lot of quant guys, you just need 1 or 2 to build out the quant models and that’s it. So your major in university has definitely been a disadvantage to you.
It’s not too late however, if you are in HK do your CPA. In Canada, that’s a bit harder, as CGA and CMA just doesn’t carry as much weight. CPA is still relatively attainable out of school.
Are you gonna try to apply to Bloomberg? They seem to have many positions across the globe…I imagine HK is very competitve because there are so many potential candidates…local HKers,mainland chinese,USA/UK/CAD/AUS returners…
Maybe you can try to cold call/network with alumuni. There is someone UT BBA working at GS right now from your grad year (maybe he graded a year earlier, dun really remember). GS is one of the few BB in HK who values “unique” experiences. Most of the other banks dislike it. They want you to have the “standard” experiences (president of XXX club, chair of YYY student union, summer internship from aboard). Being too foreign is a disadvantage (I asked someone about taking a gap year to travel and he was like thats insane talk in HK).
I am sure there are loads of alumuni from UT in HK right now. UBC, UT and other CDN university are decently represented in Hong Kong. Heck lots of Big 4 and BB HR are from Canada (linkedin stalk to see what I mean). Sorry can’t give out any names or contacts since I don’t want to get in trouble.
hi whystudy, thanks a lot for your comprehensive response!
I happen to know that there are two main streams in big 4’s - tax and audit. Which stream would you recommend if you had an eventual goal of breaking into finance?
Also, how is the finance job market in Canada, particularly Toronto, at the moment? I might consider going back if I can actually find more opportunities there. I came back to Hong Kong under the illusion that there were plenty of work opportunities here.
Hi Alladin. I tried applying to Bloomberg a couple of times, never heard back from them.
How is the finance job market in the UK? I do hold a British passport (I got it way back when Hong Kong was still a British colony) , so I am eligible to work in the UK. If it’s easier to break into the industry in the UK, I surely wouldn’t mind moving there. Thanks!
Thanks! That’s good advice.
A friend of mine just suggested me doing that as well.
I have always found it hard to believe that some stranger would put in the effort to help you out just b/c you went to the same university as he/she did. But since I am pretty much out of options now, it’s worth a try!
Suggesting that warp9 should take an audit or tax route does not sound ok. We shouldn’t undertake a career other than the fact that we have a passion and natural flair for it or that we are ready to commit the necessary energy and time to make it work which of course requires passion to carry on. Switching to audit and accounting simply because it is difficult to secure a job in finance might not be the right thing to do at the moment - I certainly understand that things may be very rough. Judging from the fact that you have a math/stat background, audit and accounting might be a bit boring for you. I have a good no of friends in audit and accounting who complain everyday about the routine and monotonous nature of accounting as a profession in general including those in academics. I am yet to see an audit professional who talks great about his job (I might be wrong). Doubtless, finance is a more fascinating, dynamic and challenging field, which makes it more interesting and an average person with a math or science background will naturally make a seamless career change. Finance is not all about FO jobs and Hong Kong jobs. A statistics background will make a great career in risk management which has gained prominence after the 2008 financial crisis. Besides that, rating agencies like somebody rightly pointed out hire people with your background. I suggest you start looking for jobs in risk management ( and enroll in FRM/PRM) and these rating firms, maybe outside HK. Must you work in HK?
Don’t want to sound rude but no chance for you to get a job in uk. BNO gives you the right to land, but not the right to board. So you need a working visa. Too many ppl who r miss inform about this point.
I know ppl with top uk masters (oxbridge, lse, lbs)who can’t land a job right now due to the visa restrictions. They’re all coming back look for offer.
For me Bloomberg called one day after sending my application. So I think if you had wait for more than one day it means they rejected you. Lots of Canadian grads.
Like 3 from UT and 2 from UWO and one from lse.
My passport is a ‘British’ British passport, not BNO. I think there were about 200k REAL British passports given out to Hong Kongers just before 1997.
Just wondering, are you currently in Hong Kong as well?