^Yup, had the final round already.
And yes it was with the wholesaler I would be working with. Your other prediction was also correct, it was a pure personality test. I think it went well, I’ll keep you posted.
^ Do you send thank you letters or call them up every week to see if a decision was made? I had an interview recently and I refuse to manipulate others through these tactics.
^ I always send thank you emails after every interview; I go through the effort of individualizing them for every person I interviewed with as well. It only takes a few minutes and I see it as something that can only help you. No downside risk. I don’t really see it as manipulation, it’s a pretty standard practice and I doubt it alters the hiring decision for 95% of the cases. But I’m willing to take my chances on that 5%.
I even send “thank you for the opportunity” emails when I don’t get selected for a job and that has helped me get some phenomenal feedback from interviewers on how I can improve and make myself more competitive.
What’s the salary for these positions like, range is fine, i’m not trying to know your specific one, I just want to know what you mean when you say the money is good. I ask because there are a couple of these open in a firm across the street from me. Thank you.
From my exp internals were between 80-120 (NYC) and externals were from 200-1mm.
^ That seems pretty accurate for NYC. Just remember Ramos4rm that the work you do and compensation you get can vary wildly depending on if your firm is already a street player or a new boy on the street.
Your base salary can also fluctuate depending on the amount of experience you have. For a relatively low experienced candidate like me, industry standard in Toronto will be $50 +/-5 Base + Bonus/Commission of 20-100. I’ve been told that even on a crap year you’re looking at a bare minimum of 70. My numbers are for internals only.
As you can see, compensation can vary a lot, and often it’s out of your control. It just depends on what territory you work in.
It varies a lot by firm and how they use internals. $80k would be pretty low, but if you’re a rookie and your territory has a bad year that could happen. Over a three year sales cycle you’re looking at $100-140k with some more room to the upside if you have some good years.
Externals make way more money and location doesn’t matter. Aside from some (very) small cost of living perks all externals get paid a certain amount of basis points on gross sales and/or net investment. If an external is making less than $300k a year, they’ll be fired before long. They should be pulling down $400-600k easy, and on good years their upside is limitless. It’s not at all uncommon for the top 1-3 wholesalers to pull down seven figures. Being an external in a low cost of living territory is a highly sought after job.
Anyway, whatsyourgovt is basically correct. I just wanted to add some additional color around it.
Edit: Just to clarify - $70-90k isn’t uncommon for an off year, but you shouldn’t be averaging that over a 3-5 year timespan. There are definitely firms out there that only pay that much, but that’s not where anyone wants to end up.
There are plenty of career internals. If you work for a good firm and have a good external it’s a fairly low stress job that pays well. Most want to go external, but there are also a fair number of people happy to pull down $130k a year and have a job with a nice work/life balance.
Got the phone call I was hoping for! Got the job! Woooo
“Ok, we poppin champagne like we won a championship game” - Birdman
Shout out to Sweep for sharing his wisdom. Over multiple rounds of interviews I got all the curveball questions (Mock phone call, sell me this pen etc.)
Any additional insight into how I can dominate the job and go external as fast as possible would be appreciated. I’m not losing focus here, I know I have to focus on the Inside role first; I just want to know what would make me stand out.
Congrats b
Congrats buddy! Nicely done.
The golden rule is to keep you external happy. Be sure to do any follow up or tasks he/she gives you immediately. Nothing pisses off externals like promising something to a client then having an internal fail to deliver. It’ll probably take about six months for your external to trust you, but if you do everything they ask eventually you’ll get some autonomy.
To keep your manager happy just hit your goals. It’s a results driven business so while being the first one in and last to leave is nice - particularly for your first few months - it’s really your activity level that they pay attention to. If you’re suppose to average 30 calls a day make 40. If you can do that and leave at 4:00 no one will care.
Pay attention to the call coaching you’ll receive. When your manager gives you a “suggestion” for a calling campaign or a way to approach a product be sure to weave it in to a few calls. They appreciate you at least trying. You do all this and you’ll be golden.
Going external is a little different. For that you need to play politics a bit. Get to know the external managers as quickly and as well as possible. Let them know right away you aspire to go external. Whenever they’re in the office be sure to look good. They have to be able to invision you in front of a client. Whenever you have the opportunity to go out drinking with them do so. Also, golf. Practice your public speaking and take any opportunity to get in front of your peers to present. Generally just be awesome.
Pay attention to which managers like to promote off the desk and which tend to hire outside externals. Kiss ass accordingly. Depending on the size of the external sales force at your firm you could make it off the desk in 2-3 years, but I’d say be prepared to put in >5. But, for most people the external position is the end of the line. Having to wait five years for your last job, and one that pays so well, isn’t that bad.
As you get ramped up let me know if you have any questions.
Congrats - I would add attitude is key. Always spin off anything (reorg in the firm, a new manager, a new external, switching terrs) as an opportunity. You’ll have frustrating days where sales are low or your external had a bad meeting in which he/she may vent on you - always realize this is only business and never let your emotions get in the way of performing your job. Finally, surround yourself with those who are viewed positively by the firm. Every firm has their disgruntled employees - try to disassociate yourself from that group because it will help you maintain the right mindset while building your image among the rising stars. Remember, consistency is king…
It’s a great role if you don’t like crunching numbers and can handle the emotional highs and lows of a sales job.
Yeezy, I work in a similar job for a different product and target market. Every thing sweep said is bang on, even regarding product knowledge, they will teach you that. I think its key to emphasis that you can handle rejection, have ambition and are an outgoing and likeable guy.
The compensation is simply decent now however a few years down the road it can get to be very lucrative.
Thank you Ramos4rm, Sweep, whatsyourgovt and bodhisattva for the kind words and advice.
This is a big step up for me from my past job so I’m F*&kn stoked!
And Sweep, do you mind shootin me an email so I can contact you directly with any future questions instead of starting a whole thread. Thanks.
Kan-yeezy congrats on getting the job! I used to be very active on AF a few years back and just signed up with a new UN. May I suggest targeting Institutional Sales or Product management/Product Specialist positions once you finish CFA.
Just for some background I’ve worked as a BD wholesaler, then RIA and Institutional wholesaler and now Fixed Income Product Manager all at large shops.
Feel free to get in touch with any questions as well. I’d be glad to help of possible. Best of luck
Thanks WholesaleMan29. It’s funny you bring up Institutional Sales and Product Management because I was strongly profiling those for my next career jump; even though I just started my current job, I like to plan ahead.
Shifting towards the product side seems pretty straight forward for me. Just rock it at my job, network with the product side of my shop and slide my way in. The Product Management Director at my shop was also an IW back in the day, and I already have him on LinkedIn.
Not sure how to make the Institutional jump though. I was actually wondering if my experience could translate into an equity/FI/derivative sales job at a large sell side firm. I know they usually hire directly from schools via their S&T programs, but this is an avenue I am willing to explore.
And do you have an email that I can use to get in touch with you in the future? Thanks.
Just got promoted to External Wholesaler boys. Thanks for the great advice, it definitely made a difference.
Break a leg!
Awesome update. Congrats Kan-yeezy
Holy shit dude, that’s great! That was a quick move. Way to kick ass. What territory are you going to cover?
Ya man, it’s been crazy. For the next few months I’m covering a short term leave here in the greater Toronto area. However once that person returns I could be anywhere in Canada, don’t know where yet. I’m hoping for Vancouver as I really want to live out west for a few years… even though the cost of living is outrageous out there.