No,i meant building some decent work experience after the second degree.I didn’t mean applying right after the second one.I just meant doing exactly the same things only having a second much better GPA.
So what does a decent candidate to a good MBA program look like then?
And does volunteer work really hold any sway? If employment history>everything else, then shouldn’t an ideal candidate not have any time for volunteer work…?
^ If you started some charitable or community endeavour that was really a big deal, that might hold weight as it shows initiative, leadership and achievement. You can also demonstrate that through work (the more common approach). But business schools want a diverse class so a few guys will get in based on community contribution. What it seems like people don’t get is how competitive these things are. They think they’re similar to their undergrad cohorts. Its more like the top guy in your class, and that’s it. If that wasn’t you, then you’re a longshot. My local MBA program is <10% the size of the undergrad program.
Finance is one of the most competitive industries. Obviously there’s a soft underbelly that is massive–retail stuff, ops etc–but the top is absolutely cutthroat. For elite business schools, only a portion of the slots are earmarked for finance people. So to get into one of those few spots, you have to stand out among your peers in this insanely competitive field. If you don’t have stellar resume, you ain’t making the cut.
It’s as simply as that. You can call it nasty–it is. But that’s life. Pick a softer industry if you’re a baby, perhaps education. (Plumbing is actually hard, by the way.)
Thanks for the helpful advice. When anybody asks a question like this there will be nasty, unhelpful remarks, and nasty helpful remarks. Having a polite, helpful remark in there is definitely a bonus 
How long did you spend on the GMAT? Did you go to classes or did you do self study?
You’re right, itera. I would never hire 19 year old me. But I’m not sure why you think I’m lying when I say I’ve undergone a fundamental shift in my character. There are several reasons for this (stabbing, depression, fatherdom, a bunch of other stuff you don’t care about and I shouldn’t have to explain to you), but you’ll have to believe me when I say I am not at all the 19 year old I used to be. And I don’t mean “oh I have a better understanding of hard work”. I mean, my personality and intrinsic drive would make me unrecognizable to my 8 years younger self. I understand quite clearly that it will be difficult to prove that I am not the lazy kid who dropped out of engineering, but that I am the ambitious and caring father who for the first time is truly challenging his intellect and will be a leader in business. You may think it’s BS, but pointing that out to me won’t change anything because I know that my story is true. Pointing out that admissions committees won’t believe me is relevant, but geo has made me quite aware of this challenge already.
I’m not looking for a dream job where everything is great. I’m looking for a job where I’m passionate about what I do and I am contributing meaningfully. I do the latter in teaching, but I’m not passionate about my job. Simply because I haven’t found my calling after one career path (engineering was never given a real shot) does not mean that I’m just being super fickle. It means I know I’m not fulfilling my true potential. When I signed up for the first level of the CFA, it was for purely entertainment purposes. Previously I had been reading my wife’s accounting and business textbooks in my spare time (hence the name), so I figured I would do something with a little more structure. I have never been impassioned about anything to do with education the way I am about finance. Maybe I’ll get a finance job someday and I’ll hate it and it’ll all be for nothing, and if that’s the way it is, so be it. I’ll go back to teaching and I will be a little smarter for the experience. But I’m certainly not going to stick around at a job I don’t like because I don’t fit your idea of the ideal MBA candidate.
I can assure you that while the college of education is easy, the actual job is not. Trust me on this one.
And how come I’m a baby all of the sudden? I’m not complaining that it’s too competitive…I’m trying to gain perspective and analyze my options.
^ The baby comment was more directed at the guy who complained about us being nasty.
Ah I see. To be fair, telling me to go into plumbing is completely unhelpful. The question was “do I have any shot at a top school” and the answer was “get out of finance”, which is a completely ridiculous way and bitter sounding way to answer somebody’s question. Finance may be tough, but if it’s so tough that nobody should even try then none of us should be here. Plus, that wasn’t what I was asking at all.
^ The answer to your question about whether or not you have a shot is no. Sorry.
Of course, that’s not actually true. As long as the admissions committee is made up of humans, anybody who meets the absolute requirements has a shot. But, your advice is that I should not try because the odds are so long it wouldn’t be worth the effort and fee of applying in the future. I appreciate the input
TFA: a program for relatively smart college grads who don’t really know what they want to do with their lives and get sent to work in schools that lots of real teachers don’t want to work in. People who really want to be a teacher will just be a teacher. It’s not exactly the world toughest job to get, getting into a school district.
Should’ve used this one. Cuz then you could’ve rubbed in the fact that they didn’t make it…
SpareTime, you seem to be overly defensive about your past. The more you defend, the more you will be provoked.
I think the only way it is even remotely possible for you to get into a good or even mediocre b school is to kill the GMAT and to find a finance job asap. This means you need to start networking for an entry level gig, and then bust a$$ to get ahead.
He’s not saying you are lying, he is just saying your odds are severey stacked against you for this main reason:
While you may have had the potential to be a 4.0 student, you werent. And even though you had this change of character 2 years in and are a superstar now, there is a HUGE pool of candidates that were ALWAYS superstars that you are going to be compared to for candidacy… People that didn’t stop going to class and slack off out of boredom… People that stuck thorugh it.
Props to you for turning your outlook on life into one of determination when you were 19/20, but just realize there are counteless others out there you are competing with who have been doing it since kindergarden. Consistancy is a much overlooked trait.
I spent about 140 hours on the GMAT - more on verbal than on quant. It was all strictly self-study as I was fresh off the L3 study season. Took the test just a few weeks ago and now I’m onto essays. I would certainly recommend classes to anyone that struggles with motivation. If you needed classes for the CFA program, it’d probably be wise to look into them for the GMAT. I didn’t take classes for any of the CFA exams.
Like I said, text doesn’t convey tone well. I’m not defensive, but I do prefer that people answer the actual question that I asked. There seems to be an overarching opinion that because I asked about top MBA schools, that must mean that I want/think I can get in. I even put a big disclaimer about how I’m simply curious.
I appreciate the advice though. I’m not going to look for a finance gig for a couple years until I’m done the 3 CFA levels, unless something really lucky lands in my lap before then.
True that. I think of it as a sunk cost now. I can’t change it but I can change what I do now and in the future. I’ll just have to be proportionally better, whether or not it’s for a decent finance job or a decent MBA.
Ya I’ve been doing self study for CFA, and I piecemeal my study out pretty effectively so I actually prefer self study. Plus I don’t think there are any CFA classes out where I’m from. This province produces about 10 new CFA per year (I know because they send emails out with their names every year). Good luck with your applications!
10 CFA Charterholders per year? Are you in the Yukon? You probably want to relocate somewhere with finance jobs, or be searching there. That’s ON and AB. Anyway, I think you over estimate the value of MBA. Just get a job, hammer away. That’s all you need. You’re going to be starting in some garbage admin role with your background so only busting ass will get you a decent spot. Take some crap job no one wants and just be the best at it. If you think you’re walking into the IB team at RBC with your background, you’re not. You’re going to be a wealth management assistant or some other terrible job. That’s where careers start for folks like us. I started in a really crappy role. Now I’m in a great role, and moving to a better role very soon. It can be done as a hacksaw guy. But I didn’t get the opportunity due to the Charter or MBA or MSc (though the Charter helped, I never end up doing an MBA). I got it through working hard and adding value. And that’s probably a more sustainable path for you anyway with a kid. Doing full time MBA, earning no dollars while paying out $60k isn’t exactly fun with responsibilities.
This makes zero sense to me. The CFA is no where near as useful without a job to complement it. Jobs are were you apply what you have learned and learn to tweak what you’ve learned in it to real life situations.
Also, work experience in related role > CFA, 9 times out of 10.
Yes, the opportunity cost of an MBA would be high. Which is why I’m trying to figure out whether or not I should even keep it on the radar.
And yes, I will be relocating. I live in Saskatchewan, and without considering IG and Sunlife financial advisory type places, there’s only a handful of legitimate wealth management firms. Of course, a CFA in Saskatchewan sure stands out … but only because nobody knows what a CFA is here. We’d be relocating even if I wasn’t getting into finance. We can handle the cold, we just hate how friggin loooooong it lasts.
I can’t relocate for a couple years and there’s essentially nothing for finance in Saskatchewan, so there’s not much point in looking until I CAN relocate (which will be in a couple years when I’m done the 3 levels, hopefully). Like I said, if I get something really lucky landing in my lap that’s great, but I doubt thtat will happen here.
Relocating without a firm lead on a job is very, very risky.