Some of these basic basic questions like what is buy side vs sell side should be researched before you even decide you want to do finance. Then you can quite easily figure out what businesses ML is in, and you can classify each business on either side of the fence (no offense… comes off harsh). MJP, you need to chill out. How can you possibly call into question a person’s integrity and character over one AF post that quite frankly was not that malicious? And no one means more in depth when they say better. They mean WAY more upside potential. Top earners on sell side do not and will not ever make what top earners on the buy side make. Not to mention, who wants to be pitching their whole life? Who wants to always be a salesman? At some point, you want to be the whale people pitch to. The power lies in a buyer’s market. People also mean better in other ways: exposure to a broader set of asset classes, more independence, more flexibility, and often times not getting perpetually chewed out by insecure ego maniacs who define their entire life by what suit they are wearing.
Bromion, I am being hard on him, but the two things he’s communicated about himself are: significant ignorance and a willingness to be less than honest/honorable to get what he wants. I’d say we already have enough guys in our business like that, don’t you think?
RWOP, My view—there is no better way to learn security analysis than by working on the sellside. You do in-depth work (if you’re any good), you put yourself out there both verbally and in print, and you learn accountability in a way that is not possible on the buyside. I’d say most of the guys on the buyside would be far better at their jobs if they had started on the sellside. I can often tell which guys have been on the sellside before the buyside after a few conversations. They tend (this is a generalization, I concede) to be a bit harder-working and far more humble.
I don’t disagree that sell side will teach you better tools, like how to build huge crazy models. I was just pointing out that besides getting better experience and more depth (which many just use to get to the buy side), there are not many reasons to go sell side in my opinion. You work longer hours, have less upside potential, usually require more schooling to be successful (MBA), often have to wear a suit to work, very frequently have a really crappy mean boss and/or colleagues, and when the market trends downward in line with the normal business cycle, you can/will get laid off. mjp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > RWOP, > My view—there is no better way to learn security > analysis than by working on the sellside. You do > in-depth work (if you’re any good), you put > yourself out there both verbally and in print, and > you learn accountability in a way that is not > possible on the buyside. > > I’d say most of the guys on the buyside would be > far better at their jobs if they had started on > the sellside. I can often tell which guys have > been on the sellside before the buyside after a > few conversations. They tend (this is a > generalization, I concede) to be a bit > harder-working and far more humble.
mjp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’d say we already have enough guys in our > business like that, don’t you think? Ha! I read the first portion of your response and immediately thought, “He’s going to do well in our industry!” That said, I see where you are going with this and agree. I also feel though that as an employee or prospective employee, you need to be saavy about landing jobs and getting the right opportunities. Most companies want to keep people in place for the most part (usually to their career detriment), while most candidates want move up, up, up as fast as possible. One has to find the balance between being deceitful and looking out for your best interests. For myself, I am a cynic. I think interviews are basically crap, and I think a lot of the work that goes on in our industry (especially on the sell side, where I work), is also crap. I don’t mean quality of work, but rather the fundamental value proposition of sell side research. Anyway, like it or not, a lot of people view their first job as a stepping stone to something better, and frankly, for the amount of hours we work and sacrifices we make, I don’t see anything wrong with that. So if the guy wants to punch his ticket and then move on to something better, I don’t think we should hold it against him. Just my opinion.
mjp, I think he was just looking for some interview tips. Eventually I’m sure he’d have the foresight to eventually start to develop some type of serious interest in his job – it’s tough to do all the long hours without making significant personal commitment. On the other hand, it’s incredible that you’ve been on the sell-side for 13 years. What do you do – are you a senior analyst? My three years on the sell-side were enough for me and I don’t plan to return to the sell-side again.
Numi, I am a senior analyst (covering healthcare services securities) and 13 years is awhile, I guess, but there are lots of guys that have been at this longer than me and are quite a bit older than me. I’m still in my 30s (though 40 is closing in faster than I’d like). But I ask you (as I wait for my next conference call to begin): should an employer really hire and train a guy who might “eventually start to develop some type of serious interest in his job”? He may be a much better guy than he communicates, but to me he came across as ignorant, somewhat dishonest, and a bit too self-centered (even for our industry). Would you hire the guy? Also–it is true as some have said–the work on the sellside is hard, the hours are long (though not ridiculous—7A-6:30P, except during earnings season–6A-8,9,10P), but most senior guys at non-bulge bracket firms (my case) make $200-400K—and given that I come from a modest background and that my Dad never made more than 40K, I feel pretty good making healthy 6 figures. I live in the Southeast US and my wife and I have three kids and, though a talented OT, she can choose to stay home and raise our 1,3, 5 yr olds. So I’d say–all in all–the sellside’s not such a bad gig.
chill mjp, there’s nothing wrong for someone to come up with "correct"answers for an interview. how well do you think the interview process is able to pick out the best candidate for the job?
mjp, those are good questions. I try not to judge too much on these message boards and just help whenever I can. I don’t think that by giving him advice on how to answer the question, I’m helping him to “defraud” his potential interviewer. We all want to be as prepared for these things as we can be, and sometimes it helps to talk to someone in the industry. I guess if his interviewer is savvy enough, the person can come to his or her own conclusions. I was in sell-side research at a couple of bulge brackets for the last three years. I made it to senior associate and was working some independent ocverage, but then left for private equity. I don’t think the hours in research were all that bad – mine were pretty much the same as yours – but dealing with the bureaucracy and compliance issues were annoying and I found that very often, more time was being spent making sure that you say things the right way or that you’ve secured proper approval to make some type of presentation or report as opposed to doing the actual analysis. Plus, everyone talks about coming up with a differentiated opinion, but a lot of times that’s easier said than done, and it’s hard to tell how and when your ideas are monetized simply because research doesn’t generate direct revenues. My hours in private equity are similar to what they were in research, but the work I do here has more personal meaning to me. I think there is more variety and less bureaucratic stuff. Compensation was obviously a key consideration for my move too, but mostly it was just that I was ready to move on to something new since I didn’t see myself having a career as a senior research analyst.
OK, OK, I agree (and concede) that we all want to present our best selves in interviews, but, to me, it just seemed that our friend was not at all concerned about actually contributing to his new employer, but rather was solely looking for a way to fake enough interest to get hired so he could then turnaround ASAP and use the experience gained to benefit himself and a future new employer. Numi–FYI–I thought your original post was fine and appropriate if the guy was sincerely trying to figure out whether he wanted to try for a sellside gig, but he wasn’t conflicted at all. he said that he couldn’t imagine anyone making a rational decision for the sellside and my feeling is—if that’s the way he feels—then he should go out and make an argument for himself in a job he could really care about. See—if he had any sellside experience–he already know how to make an argument!!!
mjp, again, those are good points. I agree that the original poster needs to do more diligence in figuring out whether the sell-side or the buy-side would be the better fit. Hopefully my suggestion to how he should answer the question helps illuminate some of the differences, but beyond that, I would expect him or anyone else to search the archives of these boards and read up about the topic as much as they could. It’s evident that the original poster has a lot more research to do in order to understand the business, but I’m sure that’s something he realizes. Anyway, I understand your point of view and I agree that certain people are more insightful and analytical than others. But at the same time, I also think that sometimes people ask questions like the ones the original poster asked is because they lack the information they need in order to determine whether or not the job they’re interviewing for is something they’d really care about.