Back in the 80s the Japanese made a name for themselves by working themselves to death. Karoshi, that is called, and the word was created because all too often somebody didn’t wake up from their desk. Meaning: THese guys didn’t go home for sleep! They put their head on the desk at night and sleapt till early morning. I would like to have a bunch of that guys working for me! In my firm! As an employer, you can’t get it any better! I for myself wouldn’t survive the first month… As for the U.S., I don’t see overwork as a problem to society. “Workaholics” are doing something all the time, but would you consider answering emails at 3 am as being work? My term of choice would be stupidity. If you don’t sleep, you are making mistakes and are inefficient.
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > JensensalphaMale Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > P.S. You could always move to France if you > > like > > > it that way. > > > > +1. Seriously, if we’re on the topic of > > generalizations, no one’s being stopped from > > moving to France if you want to be lazy, fat, > > greasy, arrogant, obnoxious, and hairy. If you > > like your women with armpit hair and BO then > gay > > Paree is the place for thee. > > > An American is calling the French “fat greasy”. > That’s pretty dumb, dude. > > Is there even a fatter developed country than the > US? I think only maybe Canada comes close; > although a friend recently mentioned that New > Zealand was pretty bad. No, Canada is not close the US. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity
You guys mostly aren’t seeing it. You gotta zoom way out, is it really working. If you go anywhere in the world you will see healthier happier societies. Our thing here is really taking a toll on people, fat, scowling, incredibly unhealthy people. Living here you start believing it is normal. What we do is dispute the situation and argue intellectually why it should be working, but it isn’t working in reality, hey look around for f$&@s sake! The debt answer was good. We’ve got prisoners delima and debt burden for why people do crap that isn’t in their own good, they are basically slaves the way that makes it sound. Nice, I’m going for coffee.
ive just seen the hours you people work… it’s crazy! i work as a credit officer in Kenya. we work 40hrs a week (8-5 with a 1hr lunch break). on a very busy week it’ll push to about 45. and you people work 80+. its crazy. if you work every day of the week thats 12hours a day! how do you do it? given im from a 3rd world country, i know a few people are gonna come out and say the fact we work so little is the reason we’re under developed… but still 80 hours is extreme! totally different culture that i’m having difficulties comprehending…
There’s everything under the sun in the US. I have a few friends who write code for a couple of hours a day and spend the rest of their day surfing and smoking weed. I have some friends who back in the day would put 120hrs+ working as analysts for an IBank. I used to be like that, but now I work at most 60hrs, make six figures, and enjoy my weekends fully. I could care less about the french, british or whomever. If they like how their society is, fine by them, just don’t go around thinking you are superior to others, the US for far more diverse than you can imagine.
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your problem, like most people, is that you > naively assume that having a successful career and > having a good quality of life outside of work are > mutually exclusive. That in a nutshell is why some > people are successful, and most people aren’t. You are immature at best and ignorant at worst.
I think everyone at one point or another realizes there is more to life then work, and some of us realize it sooner then others. It’s just one of things you have to realize for yourself. Does that mean be lazy? Of course not…
You don’t develop into the world’s most powerful hyperpower–political, social, economic, military, etc.–without a strong societal work ethic. Look at the top power in Asia–Japan–and you see that they work very hard (maybe not long hours, but hard ones). Look at the hardest working Europeans–Germans–and you see that they are the top economic machine. Now, look at your “lazier” societies, like Greece, and tell me how well that’s worked.
How well that’s worked for who?
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: >You are immature at best and ignorant at worst. While I agree with you, you are making a gross understatement.
kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You don’t develop into the world’s most powerful > hyperpower–political, social, economic, military, > etc.–without a strong societal work ethic. Look > at the top power in Asia–Japan–and you see that > they work very hard (maybe not long hours, but > hard ones). Look at the hardest working > Europeans–Germans–and you see that they are the > top economic machine. > > Now, look at your “lazier” societies, like Greece, > and tell me how well that’s worked. You are now being stupid - this is not the stuff we are talking about.
cloudstrife Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ive just seen the hours you people work… it’s > crazy! i work as a credit officer in Kenya. we > work 40hrs a week (8-5 with a 1hr lunch break). on > a very busy week it’ll push to about 45. and you > people work 80+. its crazy. if you work every day > of the week thats 12hours a day! how do you do > it? > > given im from a 3rd world country, i know a few > people are gonna come out and say the fact we work > so little is the reason we’re under developed… > but still 80 hours is extreme! totally different > culture that i’m having difficulties > comprehending… I have a friend who worked with PwC in Nairobi, in their Corporate Advisory services(I think during KenGen IPO) and the team used to work more than 100 hours a week. Same for Safaricom Listing. Stop making generalizations here.
kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You don’t develop into the world’s most powerful > hyperpower–political, social, economic, military, > etc.–without a strong societal work ethic. Look > at the top power in Asia–Japan–and you see that > they work very hard (maybe not long hours, but > hard ones). Look at the hardest working > Europeans–Germans–and you see that they are the > top economic machine. > > Now, look at your “lazier” societies, like Greece, > and tell me how well that’s worked. Hmmm, while you’re on the subject of history: what happened to ALL empires in the history of the world. Now tell us again, what are you working so hard for? Next stop, China just as soon as they and the rest of the world stop financing the US.
China is cool, they are still thin and healthy mentally-normal people for the most part, they work long hours in SH but stay balanced, hopefully they avoid the path we’ve taken. I’d like to check out Columbia next, people tell me good things.
what i find most striking is the inability of most people here in the US to just chill. i am not talking about taking a month off in august and going to bermuda - i’m talking about hitting a sidestreet sunny coffee shop with a friend/coworker and getting braindead for an hour. the US ratio of street cafes to people is inadequate. even the “relaxation techniques” in the happy hour culture here are somewhat fast paced and often turn into a race (whos gonna take most shots eh?). and i live in cali which should be the most laid back place in the US, i dont even wanna think about the rhythm of the east coast. that being said, there’s no other place i’d rather work than here. we just need to incorporate some more chill habits, i’m working on having the blackberries surgically removed from some coworkers.
I take it you’re pro-legalization of marijuana then?
Good observation ^ It may be the sugar.
One thing I’ll add to what Mobius said (who despite having a weird name seems fairly cool)… I was talking to this dr and she said most of the people who come in with symptoms that concern them - dizzy, tired, weight, confused, muscle aches, etc, etc, whatever…like 9 out of 10 issues are stress related she says. It is related to that inability to just chill in my opinion.
Muddahudda Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > kkent Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > You don’t develop into the world’s most > powerful > > hyperpower–political, social, economic, > military, > > etc.–without a strong societal work ethic. > Look > > at the top power in Asia–Japan–and you see > that > > they work very hard (maybe not long hours, but > > hard ones). Look at the hardest working > > Europeans–Germans–and you see that they are > the > > top economic machine. > > > > Now, look at your “lazier” societies, like > Greece, > > and tell me how well that’s worked. > > Hmmm, while you’re on the subject of history: what > happened to ALL empires in the history of the > world. Now tell us again, what are you working so > hard for? Next stop, China just as soon as they > and the rest of the world stop financing the US. There’s a marked difference between “empire” and “hyperpower”–China doesn’t fit the mould of future hyperpower–which is dominant in all facets, not just economically or militarily. At the very least, the British and the Duth, former hyperpowers, are still doing pretty well. History repeating itself isn’t an exact science. In fact, Italy is a G8 nation and one of the wealthiest nations on earth and is a former hyperpower (Rome).
purealpha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here is an example, I wander in today in a daze of > bliss, and the following event combined with > Economist article triggers my AF post. > > My manager friend comes to talk to me. She tells > me she was glued to her Blackberry all vacation, > even though she just told me she is getting > burnout and needed vacation, she works 8-8 > usually, and she goes home and answers emails to > midnight. I said “why?”. She said, “because she > doesn’t want to miss a thing”. I said “is it > expected” (cause I’m thinking of taking a job with > her portfolio)? She said “no not really, I’m just > type A”. All the time there is this subtle > bragging from her about how her life voluntarily > sucks. > > Observation - gradually these people become fatter > and more stressed and eat more fast food and more > pills…GDP benefits from their cycle of > stupidity, but how do they benefit. I would question whether or not GDP benefits. The reality the people who are gifted enough to generate ideas / products / whatever focus on what they are doing because they love it. Everyone else is pretending. I’ve worked with plenty of people who had a ton of work ethic but weren’t exceptional at what they did. They weren’t generating excess GDP for their efforts, but they got to pretend they were someone important. Don’t get me wrong, they achieved high relative to peers but let’s not pretend they are Steve Jobs.