7500 all three levels i meant…
I intend to get into the mathematical model making part of derivative asset pricing, stock options in particular, and I figured the CFA will give me a broad enough horizon to better my understanding of the investment profession, what they know so far, how they operate etc. meanwhile I’m taking math courses (a lot more fun than the CFA), and hopefully, if I pass the enxt two level wiht the first attempt by summer next year I should have the skill set I’m aiming at… whats your take on that
I am a trader on a derivatives desk. CFA is not particularly useful in this business. On sell side, there are essentially three FO roles: sales, trading and quant. For quant, you usually need a PhD or MFE. For trading and sales, requirements are less stringent, but this also means more people apply for the same jobs… Not sure if this is a reliable career goal, given that job openings are so few. If you have the qualifications and are considering this sort of FO job, you should also consider other FO jobs…
The CFA won’t hurt, but I’d be looking more at Quant Finance programs (CQF for example or masters in quant finance) for what you’re after. Most of the quants I’ve worked with are real propeller heads who often don’t know very much about general finance but are solid on their math (PhD level usually).
Like I said, CFA isn’t going to hurt but I think you’d get better value out of the huge amount of time you’ll spend on CFA elsewhere for what you want to do.
Thank you for your opinion. As you pointed out, most quants have little general finance background. I have this belief that the lack of economic/financial knowledge disadvantages most quants. They do the hard mathematical work and the asset manager repas the glory. I think a bit of an interdisciplinry take on the subject may produce curious outputs. I made a schedule for the amth, 18 months out at most, which ends with PDE’s and Stochastic Calculus, at which point I ought to be able to write a decent model all on my own. I know Masters in Financial Engineering are ideal, but my sorry GPA dictates that I go the way I described above. Thanks again for your opinion. any critiuque is welcome
Nope, it’s the same amount of pages.
My “Intro to college algebra” textbook has about the same number of pages as my “Partial Differential Equations and Advanced Stochastic Processes” textbook has, too.
It’s not the number of pages that’ll get you. It’s what’s on the pages.
best answer by a mile or more. and I agree 100%
hahaha… this is the best statement everrrr
i have a lot of friends and colleagues who always asked, “If you have a lot of spare time, why the hell did you choose to spend it with CFA materials?”
This statement will be my answer from now. (^_____^)
Like ‘rayankh’, I’m not a Wall Street guy. I’m not a securities analyst, at least in the public-company sense. I analyze and value non-public companies. Anyone who thinks securities analysis of publics is tough should try appraising entities with no audited financials, limited disclosures, shallow gene pools, and no active markets for their securities. I’ve analyzed both types, and there’s no contest as to which is more difficult.
I had a simple reason for getting on the CFA track. . .in my late 50s: I finally concluded that my life was too short to pay dues to the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. I was sick and tired of supporting an organization whose policy stances routinely embarrassed me. Among other goofy ideas, AICPA opposed the expensing of options and also increased and more-detailed disclosure of fees paid to public-accounting firms. I’m a Marine, and I wasn’t born yesterday, but that kind of garbage was unacceptable to me. However, the only valuation designation that I had was conferred by AICPA. So, to escape, I had to find another credentialing organization. . .and not just ANY organization. I sought one that (a) put the public first, (b) had zero tolerance for ethical breaches, © was transparent, (d) was inclusive, (e) had astronomically high standards (it has long been said that AICPA has a ‘quota’ for passing grades - 28%), and (f) had financial staying power. The Institute, then AIMR, was the clear choice. I don’t know if I’m the oldest candidate who ever received the charter–I was 62 then–but I suspect I’m one of the oldest.
I should also mention that passing the CFA regimen is THE hardest thing I ever did in my career. That includes the CPA exam (a no-brainer by comparison) and completing all of my Ph.D. coursework in strategic management (no walk in the park). But the CFA charter is also the best thing I ever did for my career. My only regret is that I didn’t do it many years sooner.
In closing, let me say something else that I hope will give all candidates hope: After studying for 450+ hours for the Level III in 2005, I failed the test. I felt as if someone had socked me in the stomach. I mean, I KNOW how to study. I KNOW how to take tests. And, in preparation for L3, I had made over 225 pages of handwritten, meticulously organized notes that were indexed to each Learning Outcome Statement.
I was ready to quit. Heck, at that point, I was 61. I had remarried in 1994, and my bride was and remains the most important aspect of my life. We all know that the spouses and significant others of CFA candidates have at least as much invested in this process as the candidates do, yet they can do nothing except hope, pray, and support the effort. My beloved had done exactly that. She was a true CFA widow. My failure to pass the 2005 L3 exam knocked both of us for a loop.
After a couple of weeks, I said to her something like, “Dear, you know, we don’t have to prove anything to anybody. We’ve been successful, we’re nationally known, and we’re well-respected. Why don’t we just call it a day?”
This little woman–with a spine of stainless steel–looked at me and said (I’m quoting here because the words are seared into my soul): “Dear, I’m really sick of being a CFA widow. But if you don’t pass Level 3 next year, I’ll probably become a real widow!”
So much for throwing in the towel.
For L3 in 2006, I updated my meticulous notes for the new readings and new/modified LOS’s, studied for fewer than 100 hours. . .and passed with flying colors. Dorothy’s name belongs on my charter alongside my own. I never could have done it without her unwavering support. . .although that tongue-in-cheek threat to ‘become a real widow’ was one heckuva motivator. 
Hang in there, everyone. The charter is worth every hour and every stressor that you’re investing. But make sure to affirm those who are supporting you and who are emotionally invested in this program alongside you. They don’t hear that affirmation often enough, and they’ve certainly earned it.
^^^
That is one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum.
Very inspiring. Thanks Warren for the great post.
Level 1 was required for my previous job. I’m a good test-taker (99th percentile on LSAT and GMAT) so it didn’t require more than about 40-50 hours of study for each of the first two levels, and they were paid for as well. Seems worth the effort to take the last exam and receive the designation, particularly as the material is useful for my work and it’s definitely a respected credential.
I smell a rat.
I have never heard of a job that requires you to only pass Level 1. Passing Level 1 tells an employer only that you learned all the stuff you should have learned in college. It says, “You know as much about finance as a mediocre finance major from a mediocre university.”
Also, I seriously doubt that anyone could pass Level 2 with only 40-50 hours of study, even if you have a PhD in Finance from the University of MIchigan and ten years of studying and teaching finance to grad students.
I also call bullsh*t on studying only 40-50 hrs for L2 because “you are a good test taker”
Not sure why I would make that up.
As for the requirement to pass L1 - “Graduates who take part in the Wholesale Bank International Graduate Programme will be sponsored to undertake the CFA Level 1 qualification,” from http://www.standardchartered.com/en/careers/faqs/graduate-programmes.html. I know it doesn’t say it’s a requirement on the page, but trust me it was to move out of the program and into a business role (with very rare exceptions, and that generally resulted in not being eligible for promotions until L1 completion).
And I didn’t do a single thing to prep for L2 until Thursday morning 9 days out from the exam. My whole prep basically consisted of a read-through of the Schweser materials and the end-of-chapter questions. Think about it this way: if I’m able to score 99th percentile against a similar peer group on both the LSAT/GMAT, how hard should it be to score 60th percentile (essentially the cut-off), particularly as the 40-50 hours were significantly more than I’d put in on the LSAT/GMAT?
And I don’t have a finance PhD but I do have a grad degree in math and I passed the econ PhD qualifiers at a good program…once you’ve dealt with that stuff, trust me a lot of the CFA material starts to look like middle school algebra. I’ve known other people to pass L2 on less prep than myself…this forum does suffer from selection bias, as most people who know they will pass on little study probably don’t put as much thought/effort into their prep as a lot of people frequenting here (which could make you think everyone is studying 200 hours a week for 60 weeks a year).
I realize this doesn’t prove I didn’t make up the study time, but it should corroborate my other assertions (and hence establish credibility I’m not making up stuff?):
http://overpronatorshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/test_scores.jpg
I think dude is telling the truth. At least about his background.
“I am normally very, very good at standardized tests (176 LSAT and passed levels 1&2 of CFA exam all with minimal study)” from: http://gmatclub.com/forum/just-registered-20-days-until-exam-145568.html
From: http://tmanalysis.econwiki.com/schools/all/columbia.html His profile: Type of Undergrad: Graduated Top 20 liberal arts college, after 2 years at Top 30 University Undergrad GPA: 3.79 both schools Type of Grad: Top 50, MS in Applied Mathematics Grad GPA: 4.00 (at time of application) GRE : 800Q, 640V, 5.5AWA Math Courses: Undergrad Math: Linear Algebra (A), Multivariable Calc (A-), Applied Stats (A), Probability (A), Operations Research (B+), Foundations of Mathematics (A-), Combinatorics (A), Number Theory (A), Abstract Algebra I/II (A/A), Real Analysis I/II (A/A-), Graph Theory (A), ODE’s (A) Grad Math: Abstract Algebra (A), Linear Algebra (A-), Cryptography (A+), Functional Analysis (IP), Probability (IP), Combinatorics Seminar (IP) Econ Courses:** Undergrad Econ:**Intermediate Micro Theory (A-), Intermediate Macro Theory (A), Econometrics (A-), Int. Trade (A), Int. Finance (A), Econ Stats (A), Comparative Economics (B), Game Theory (A), Experimental Econ (A), Money and Banking (B), Mathematical Econ (A)**Grad Econ:**Phd-level Econometrics (IP)**Letters of Recommendation:**All math professors, 2 from undergrad (real analysis prof + adviser), 1 from grad (thesis adviser/probability prof)**Research Experience: Summer REU program in mathematics, research assistant for a couple summers Teaching Experience: Calculus 2/pre-algebra/geometry instructor, Linear Algebra TA Research Interests: Decision theory, perhaps financial or international econ SOP: Yes Other: Cross country captain, NCAA Postgraduate Scholarship recipient, lots of sports awards; one publication from REU program, hoping to get thesis published in good journal; applied for NSF RESULTS: Acceptances:**Virginia ($19,000) Duke ($17,000) UNC ($14,400) UCSD (none)**Rejections: Princeton Kellogg MEDS Columbia Cornell What would you have done differently? Gotten recommendation from econ professor, sent master’s thesis to someone at programs, applied to Stanford Accepts:**Acceptances: Virginia ($19,000) Duke ($17,000) UNC ($14,400) UCSD (none)Rejects: Rejections: Princeton Kellogg MEDS Columbia Cornell
EDIT: repeat post
“…this forum does suffer from selection bias, as most people who know they will pass on little study probably don’t put as much thought/effort into their prep as a lot of people frequenting here (which could make you think everyone is studying 200 hours a week for 60 weeks a year)…”
You are absolutely right. Besides this inherent quality of the forum of generilising the merit / mental capability of all , there is also no derth of people here who do not mind generilising and become expert, normally in a negative manner (coming forward to adviseall others who may care to listen ) about any country, nationality and /or group of people just beacuse they ‘know’ a few of them ( e.g knowing even 10000 Indians or Chinese is knowing less than .0001 % of them, not a valid sample size by any stretch of imagination!) or have worked in that country for a few years or have been to a selected few cities in that country , without realisng that they may have been tolerated or patronbised or gets ignored simply because more sensible ones they came across never bothered to respond to their jaundiced views! This ignorance and their comparing everything with reference to their limited capabilities or views makes the more confident to hold on to their views - however unjustifiable it may be… Please ignore the ‘wise’ comments and observations and go ahead on your journey.
a thousand dollars says you too.
It is definitely feasible to pass LI and LII on just 50-60 hours of studying. The guy’s background is applied math + economics at a master’s and phd-level…
My bachelor’s degree in economics essentially covered 85% of LI and 65% of LII…
Think about it this way…how long does it take you to review the curriculum after you’ve already worked through it…
Either way still very impressive