I currently work as a P&L analyst in fund services, and I have my CFA Level 1. With that being said I know we are a dime a dozen, but I do have a real passion for finance which sadly I found too late in my academic life. I recently graduated from a non-target school with a non-competitive GPA, and using the best of my abilities I landed a fund services job.
My concern is that I don’t want to be pigeon holed into the back office forever. What steps can I take to move out of the back and into the front (i.e Investment Analyst)? I have placed decently in a prestigious equity research case competition so I do have a well written report on a specific stock. I currently reside in Toronto but am very open to relocating. I know this is highly unrealistic with my background, but I would love to hear any advice from people who may have been in a similar situation and have made it.
TL;DR - Fresh grad with CFA 1 working in fund services, low gpa and non-target school wants to get into IB but very passionate.
Pro tip: stop telling people you have “passion” for finance. No one cares about your fragile feelings. What can you provide that the hundreds of the other faceless naive kids with mediocre grades cannot? Until you answer this, you’re getting nothing.
I agree. People don’t really care. Even if you do, tell them you would enjoy do x, y, and z and they better all be things that will make them more money or save them time.
What would be a considered valid answer though? I don’t want to sound half assed, but what do you personally think is something that would help someone stand out amongst hundreds of faceless naive kids with mediocre grades when they are competing against graduates from B schools? Would you say the ability to learn quickly a skill that could separate someone? I really am trying to find out what impresses and what works, because I definitely do agree with you.
You can either accept the fact that you might not be able to get those highly coveted positions since everything is against you in terms of school, grade, etc. Or you can work hard and maybe learn to network effectively for a way in at a lesser shop and go from there. I’ve also known several people who’s done master’s that was able to secure IB positions at smaller shops, just putting it out there as there’s no real way for you to change your background without something drastic at this point in time.
And yeah, no one cares that you are passionate about IB, no one who gets into IB is passionate about working 100 hours weeks being an excel monkey, make up something more tangible like your interest in corporate finance/capital markets and point out something specific that you are interested in.
I don’t know what is the valid answer. Most likely, there is no answer, to be honest. If not, everyone in BO would be hedge fund PMs. Why don’t you brainstorm something to say here.
Don’t tell people that you are passionate about finance. No one wants an image in their head of you stroking the Wall Street Journal lovingly with your hands. Instead, show people what your passion for finance can produce. Write an investment pitch for a stock or a macroeconomic analysis or backtest a trading strategy and when you want to say you have passion for the topic, instead list a bunch of things that you’ve done to prove your passion. Go read Seeking Alpha to get some ideas of how it’s done (note, there’s a lot of blah analysis on Seeking Alpha, but it’s a place to get started).
PS, it can help to locate a mentor to give you some pointers on whether what you’ve produced is any good or not. Not always possible, but family contacts and friendships are good places to start.
Wow. People are spending way to much time about your one little comment about being passionate about finance. Absolutely nothing wrong with a little passion. No issue dropping a line about it in a interview as long as you couple it with concrete evidence to the ‘why do you want this job’ or ‘why do you want to be in xyz’ question.
My advice would be 1) maybe try an MBA as an option as someone mentioned. 2) Proactively network. Uber important. 3) I see you said you placed in a stock competition. Employers are really going to care about either top school and/or experience 1st. But try to control what you can. The past is the past. So do other things like the stock comp (financial modeling courses, other competitions, Seeking Alpha, etc.). Then highlight these things on your resume. Then repeat 2) again again and again. Eventually something good will happen for you if you do this.
Your young. It’s not to late. Your career, your life is just beginning.
I think people here take issue with the passion comment because the OPs (not just this one) give little detail about what they are passionate about and why they are passionate about it. Saying ‘passion for finance’ is like saying “I love food”. Ok… what kind of food? Thai food? Chinese? Italian? Peasant or gourmet? Inevitably people eventually say, narrow your search because your definition is too broad. The OP then says “I’m open to opportunities” because they’re usually in the BO hacking away for their big money dream job, which doesn’t further the conversation at all, and trying to help more just leads to wasted time because you cannot decide for someone what their career choice should be with no details on their personality, preferences, GPA, schooling, experience, etc. Some things must be decided by OP alone. We see posts like this every week and it’s a losing battle most of the time. People who want it go and get it and people who are unsure are crippled by indecision. Having been in pretty much the same situation before, it takes a lot of sacrifice and self-development to get out of that rut and most people never make it because they don’t want it enough.
I just want to say I appreciate all the feedback I have received. With that being said, the main advice given so far has been to network and to figure out what separates me from other candidates.
I have now taken the follow steps and I hope everyone would continue to provide their feedback because I do appreciate it.
I have begun reaching out extensively to my existing network. I have now realized I have access to certain people that I didn’t think would help me, but are actually very helpful.
I am currently looking to enroll in a wallstreetprep course in financial modeling to beef up my knowledge. Alongside my current studies of CFA level 2, I hope this would help me look more “approachable” in terms of my resume. I would really like to know whether this would help or not as it is a financial investment.
I have begun to brainstorm on what passions really mean to me, and I realize it is beyond just my want. I wish to be challenge, sure being an “excel” monkey isn’t exactly the most challenging thing, but that’s the kind of challenge I want. If I was to say anymore, than it would just be embarrassing, rest assured I am thinking seriously about this point.
@el_macca17 brought up a great point regarding me as the “usual BO hacking away for their big money dream job”, I will be very honest, I believe everyone is out there looking for a big money dream job you would just be lying to yourself if you weren’t. With that being said, unpaid internships are something I am currently looking at. I want to work in IB, and I will do everything I can to get me there, whether it is in a year or in 5 I will get it.
Having said all that I just want to once again thank everyone for providing feedback and I appreciate all your comments.
Looks like we’ve spurred some good thought in there.
Figure out point 3 before investing in point 2. Everything is about scope and focus.
On point 4; yes everyone should be looking for a big money dream job… but you are also lying to yourself if you think you can get it without a certain level of quality. They’re not open to just anyone. Your trajectory has to match the dream to become reality.
Shoot me a PM in mid Jan when you have all your points in 3 and 4 sorted out.
Great on point 1. I did exactly point 2 before I broke into the industry, and although it was a small percent of help, it did help. It was brought up in a couple of interviews.
Don’t every be embarrased of what drives your passions. Embrace them and use them to your advantage.
But if you want into IB (others will have much better to say then me here), but do point 1 and 2 heavily and I would suggest doing excel competitions and getting certifications to demonstrate your actually very good with excel. Maybe there is IB focused stuff out there too? Something to look into.
Just reiterating how important it is to never ever say that “passionate” line…seriously. The networking thing is what you should focus on. You need to get in front of someone with some decision making power. Also, you say you like researching stocks and you want to be an investment analyst…but you say you want to work in investment banking? Being an investor and a banker are two different things, so maybe firm that up before you start trying to sell yourself into the positions you want. Also, you want to sound smart when you get the opp to talk to someone important (a PM at a fund or something). It would be great for you to have views on certain sectors, geographies, and certain themes you see as attractive in the next 5-10 years. Anyway, yea just don’t say you’re passionate about finance…because you’re lying to us…and to yourself.
The reason why you shouldn’t just say you are “passionate” is:
Every clueless zero experience kid says it, and it is a huge cliche.
You don’t know what you are talking about, since you have never actually worked in those finance jobs you talked about.
You have little to nothing to show for it. Have you spent every waking moment learning about markets? No - otherwise you would know more. Have you worked harder than anyone else for years to realize your career dream? No - your grades are bad and you have no real accomplishments.
It’s perceived as a filler when you have nothing substantive to say.
So, it is not really my intention to be mean or anything like that. It’s just that the one word just kicked your resume into the garbage.
My suggestion that I tell all ops people who want to break out: before you even think of moving, you have to be the best ops person in the company. People do move to front office roles, but everyone wants those jobs and only a few will ever be chosen. The ones who get chosen are usually just the most hardworking, smartest, and best people who have impressed the people they work for. If every single person you work with says, “you know, this guy is the best guy I have worked with and he really could be doing something else”, THEN you have a chance. Otherwise, no amount of coffee meetings or resume spamming is likely to work. It takes a long time to build this reputation, but there is really no easy way here. Other people are simply years ahead of you in work and knowledge.
