I am somewhat in the dark as to the big picture structure of the buy side and what the different occupation destinctions are. I figure you start with “buy side”. Then you have the buy side analysts, the money managers, and traders. With “traders” it seems there are many more subdivisions here. There are market makers, authorized participants (ETFs), the traders that work for funds and those that work for banks. That is the vague schema I have laid out in my head. What exactly is an “institutional trader”? What is the best entry point if I am interested in not only the buy side, but the more hands on in the lab trading part?
lab trading?
What is it that you currently do? Because that will influence your options if you decide to move to the “buy side”.
In general, if you are a “trader” for an institutional asset management firm, your job is to execute orders assigned by the Portfolio Manager. Bigger companies have trading teams that execute orders for many PMs.
The other type of buy side trader is someone who is given some amount of capital, and are left to their own devices. This is common among macro hedge fund companies, but such traders are often called Portfolio Managers.
On the sell side (banks), traders run a customer business - for instance, selling swaps to customers, and hedging them elsewhere for lower cost.
Are market makers considered buy side? I always assumed that if you weren’t sitting on a pile of money wondering where to put it to make it grow, you were on the sell side. The only exception being if you are a salesperson for a fund.
Basically, if you make your money by the transaction, you’re sell slide, and market makers strike me as sell side.
Market makers who are exchange members are on the sell side; their mandate is to create liquidity for exchange customers, even if they do engage in directional trades. Buy side institutions are perhaps distinguished by a lack of any obligation to make markets in any registered products. Both market makers and buy side customers need some sort of capital for their business, so I don’t think that alone is a distinguishing feature.
yea MM are 100% sell side, I like bchads wording of making money off the transaction, we can go with that
“lab trading”… yea, I was trying to be general but it kinda sounds dumb… ha!
Anyway… I think now would be a good time to open a can of worms that I have been meaning to open because it is a situation that I am going to need some serious advice on. My first “career” is gentleman’s club entertainer… yep! stripper---------->buy side … that is the rediculous situation we are looking at here. I know how high the cards are stacked against me. No finance backgound, no educational pedigree, 36 years old… former stripper. It looks bad! I don’t care… moving forward
There are two areas I really am going to need some advice on.
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How do I handle this piece of information? I don’t know whether to just speak of it calmly like it was any other job or if I should bury the truth and never dig it up again. Personally I have no shame and it feels insulting to have to lie or hide a part of my life. However, I have been told that even though I can see it as a perhaps risque, but innocent, line of work others will just assume the worst about me and the environment I worked in.
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what do I do about my resume! It is not that I have not taken advantage of my well funded life of freedom by taking on some legit accomplishments but it is all random stuff… pro triathlete, selling artist, research assistant in astrophysics… RANDOM. They are going to be like what was your JOB!
I am taking on the CFA program to add legitamacy to my quest and to get up to speed with all the stuff I am missing by not going to B-school. I also do my own trading which is critical in learning all the things you don’t learn in books. Like, for example, how to control your emotions when your short puts are ITM and exploding agaist you … or how to mix fundamental analysis with general sentiment obtained though technical studies. Also I am starting to learn to strategize by setting up complementary positions using various instruments. Learning like crazy! …but no one doing the hiring is going to take it seriously.
I know I am going to have to start on the GROUND FLOOR but I was hoping I could start in a positon that it at least adjacent to a trading desk. Meanwhile I go to work every night with my purse full of CFA flashcards and the latest edition of the Economist tucked next to my black evening gown! Ha!
…sigh… pipe dream… give me the capital, leave me to my own devices!
Yea I would say probably leave out the whole stripper thing. Didnt you say you had like a physics degree in another thread? Thats a good start, play up that background and talk about wanting to switch into finance, CFA blah blah blah. Your age at this point is certainly going to limit your options but your ship isnt sunk, you are gonna have to network your ass off.
There are a surprising number of smart strippers around. Kudos to you for being one of them!
it’s mindless work… frees up a lot of brain cells 
thanks… I need to hear “leave out the whole stripper thing”. …yea, just focus on the rest and no one will notice the gap between (hopefully)
Hahaha. I was going to guess stripper in the other thread. Trippy.
Well, the bad news is that you’re completely unqualified for any job in trading. The good news is that given your history, I would probably accept a lunch invitation to talk about my experience, assuming you are not making everything up. I am 30% convinced that you are actually a fat 30-year-old Indian man, but let’s assume you are not for now. What remains is to actually build up a convincing case that you have the knowledge and motivation to succeed in some finance role, and then meet that one person who is willing to take a chance on you. Such opportunities are hard to come by nowadays, but who is to say that they are not around for the manicly persistent few.
Im sure youll get questions about a gap in your res, just BS something. Depending on the length and the ages it happened you can find some stories to work in. Really though unless you get incredibly lucky the only way you are getting a foot in the door is through networking
I go on the assumption everyone on here is an everweight Indian
I appreciate brute honesty but really, once I get to where I am at least level III candidate, how am I different than anyone else just starting out? I still have the disadvantage of age but in my case I don’t think that will resonate with much intensity. Where does anyone else start out? Are the trading floor apprenticeships or interships?
I’m all for the networking! huh, never had to do anything like that. Tomorrow there is managing volatility seminar at my local CFA society (philadelpha) …I’m going!
You’re different because you dont fit into the “typical” route to buy side positions aka go to a target college, get some internships, work as an analyst at a BB, then got a job at a fund. Obviously that isn’t what everyone does, but it is generally considered the easiest route to those jobs.
Anything other than that you are fighting an uphill battle for sure. Age will be a bigger deal at some firms than others, you’ll likely be completely passed over at some firms, others might not care about it.
Can I just point out something really obvious? Are you applying for jobs in the same city that you work in? I mean, if you omit your work experience, what if someone calls you out on it because they remember you from way back? It’s good that you own up to your job but just be careful getting tangled up over something so innocuous. that won’t go over well with HR.
And please omit personal details here (location, age, etc), it’s a small world and probably 75% of people on this site are lurkers and don’t post.
I dont’ have any real advice but wish you the best of luck sincerely. It looks like an uphill battle, I would say if you can, look for a job in business dev and maybe work your way in - but time is against you so you’re going to have to decide how much longer you have to try this CFA/trading thing vs finding good long term employment.
I don’t advocate lying normally, but one advantage of being a woman is that saying “I was a housewife” or even “homemaker (not married)” is entirely believable to cover a gap in your resume where you were a professional entertainer. Or you can say that you were a professional entertainer and say you sang and danced. Then you switch topics quickly to focus on how you did physics, studied for the CFA etc. and make some useful observation about what markets are doing these days and where the risks are.
If you have any trading experience, you can mention that too. One thing about trading is that often times trading one’s own portfolio can count as long as you indicate that you have learned things about markets from it.
^^oh bchad… homemaker!! (Sorry I just threw up a little) Yes… I think my vague career as an artists is a perfect place to embellish and fill the gap. That explains the bohemian lifestyle.
Ha ha
I’m not saying that you should relish the thought of being a homemaker; just that it’s an easy way to dodge an unpleasant question.
If you’re able to carry it off, and avoid the most obvious next question, calling yourself an independent artist or even entrepreneur is a perfectly good alternative.