Is the attrition rate for institutional sales rep any different than financial advisors?
newsmaker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blacks now account for 2.3 percent -about one in > 45 - of the firm’s brokers and broker-trainees, > McCann said. “Am I happy with 2.3 percent of my > FAs being African-Americans?” he said. “No.” > > McCann also conceded that “there is an > over-representation of African- American FAs in > the lower quintiles” of production. > -------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- > > Rationality is on exactly one side of this > argument. And it’s not the side that’s advocating > that a firm hire more people who are statistically > more likely to be poor performers in this > particular industry. > > Sounds to me like ML is in the game to win the > game, which is how it should be. There’s a lot of successful black people that need investment advisors, seems like their cutting themselves out of a potential market.
RycherX Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is the attrition rate for institutional sales rep > any different than financial advisors? just like FAs, institutional salespeople come in all shapes and sizes. you could group consultant relations people in there too. bottom line is that there are quality investment professionals calling on retail clients, institutional clients and consultants. there are also people who don’t know what they are doing (including lots of PMs). those are the people that make up the so called attrition rate. you can’t reduce it to a number. talented people succeed, no matter what they set their minds to.
grizzums Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, this thread is an enlightening read into the > mentality of a particular slice of the financial > profession. A wee bit embarrassing. > > Not sure why a construction worker, like myself, > with a small niche outfit that can pull an easy 6 > figures by working as much or as little as I’d > like - even in a housing deflationary environment- > would want to get into the industry… > > A question for me to ponder some more while I take > off early today so I can go home, close out the > rest of the green put side of my straddle on the > SPY, and set up the BBQ for the start of a long > weekend in celebration of the 4th. > > Good luck financial gurus! Ha! Look at this putz trying to wave a six figure salary, SPY options and BBQ in people faces. Get over yourself, will ya. I love people like you – so comfortable, so confident…until one day the hungry kid whose struggling now gets a break, builds up steam, and whizzes pass your ass. I know your comments were not directed at me. Nevertheless, there is a lot of hard working people on this forum who are setting the bar much higher for themselves than running some small scale construction outfit and playing with options. Don’t take cheap shots just because at the moment some are not where they want to be yet.
Gouman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > grizzums Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Well, this thread is an enlightening read into > the > > mentality of a particular slice of the > financial > > profession. A wee bit embarrassing. > > > > Not sure why a construction worker, like > myself, > > with a small niche outfit that can pull an easy > 6 > > figures by working as much or as little as I’d > > like - even in a housing deflationary > environment- > > would want to get into the industry… > > > > A question for me to ponder some more while I > take > > off early today so I can go home, close out the > > rest of the green put side of my straddle on > the > > SPY, and set up the BBQ for the start of a long > > weekend in celebration of the 4th. > > > > Good luck financial gurus! > > > Ha! Look at this putz trying to wave a six figure > salary, SPY options and BBQ in people faces. Get > over yourself, will ya. I love people like you – > so comfortable, so confident…until one day the > hungry kid whose struggling now gets a break, > builds up steam, and whizzes pass your ass. > > I know your comments were not directed at me. > Nevertheless, there is a lot of hard working > people on this forum who are setting the bar much > higher for themselves than running some small > scale construction outfit and playing with > options. Don’t take cheap shots just because at > the moment some are not where they want to be yet. cool, but maybe he’s happy with his lifestyle. money isn’t everything
“cool, but maybe he’s happy with his lifestyle. money isn’t everything” NOT TO THIS FORUM!!! You are measure only by the money!!!
why can’t we all get along? why do some people seem to enjoy putting people down? just because someone is an FA doesn’t mean that they are somehow inferior to a portfolio manager. some FAs make more than PMs and some less. it all depends on individual productivity. the one FA I have been in contact with (in managing my mother’s affairs) has been an FA at Clifford Swan in Pasadena. She is excellent, and a CFA charterholder among many other things.
Gouman Wrote: ----------------------------------- > > > Ha! Look at this putz trying to wave a six figure > salary, SPY options and BBQ in people faces. Get > over yourself, will ya. I love people like you – > so comfortable, so confident…until one day the > hungry kid whose struggling now gets a break, > builds up steam, and whizzes pass your ass. > > I know your comments were not directed at me. > Nevertheless, there is a lot of hard working > people on this forum who are setting the bar much > higher for themselves than running some small > scale construction outfit and playing with > options. Don’t take cheap shots just because at > the moment some are not where they want to be yet. Relax, tough guy. I wasn’t taking cheap shots but felt one was leveled in a certain direction that motivated me to post. The individual explained what he/she meant and as such, I misunderstood. I brought up salary for one reason and one reason only… It is my perception that, generally speaking, actors in the financial industry are some of the most shallow people I’ve met…all they care about is how much money they make. Who cares? Who cares how much I make, who cares how much you make. I have also been witness to this poncho, macho attitude of “I’m better than you because I’m a pm or an analyst or whatever…” attempting to degrade any other profession. I have read this site for awhile and there are some real smart, hard working people on here that do not fit my general perception as it doesn’t cut across the entire financial spectrum. I can respect that and do. I know some real first class individuals in the business that do not fit my perception whatsoever…and I don’t mean “first class” from a monetary or (fake) “status” point of view. I’m not sure what gave you the idea that I am taking cheap shots because some people are “not where they want to be yet”. I’m all for everyone to be successful in their endeavors. Define your own vision of “success” as I have mine. “setting the bar much higher”, eh? The bar for what? I’m no better than you or anyone else, and I never intended to imply otherwise. Yeah, I’m comfortable… Comfortable in my own skin. “Builds up steam and whizzes past my ass”, eh? Should I be concerned? Ha. I don’t need to measure myself against anyone pal…you feel free. Good luck. I meant no offense to the board here…again a misunderstanding and ill admit that I was trigger happy in my response. Those of you that feel that money is everything, go do what you feel you need to do. Yes, Sean… I am happy with my lifestyle, but always looking for new challenges and adventures. I’ve distracted the board and this thread enough now… Ill go away. Have a great weekend!
^^ Well put. This reminds me of the conversation between Martin Sheen and Bud Fox in Wall Street.
grizzum, mind if i asked you to share more about your construction experience? I know it’s not finance/FA related, but it is quite interesting now as the real estate is heading south.
ancientmtk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > grizzum, mind if i asked you to share more about > your construction experience? I know it’s not > finance/FA related, but it is quite interesting > now as the real estate is heading south. I’d be more than happy to comment on a thread regarding the real estate or construction industry as I have time, but I’d prefer not to muddle up this thread anymore. If I can offer up some information that is helpful, no problem.
tvPM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thats fine, just don’t tell people you are a pro > in invesment management…cuz in reality he isn’t. > I have no prob with FAs helping people who can’t > motivate or discipline their savings or dont know > what tax-deferred means, but saying that the FA is > some investment guru is a long-shot (yep, there > are the exceptions…my point is it shouldnt be > the exception, it should be the standard). > > And as far as wrap accts that reduce the FAs comp, > any independent FA should be paying for > transactions, which ultimately will lower their > comp. This may not be the case as an employee FA > at some wirehouse, but it does exist and I have > seen the statements of expenses to prove it. > > To end, any job posting that refers to “unlimited > income potential”, and “teachers, construction > workers, and newpaper delivery boys become > successful FAs every day” is gong to continue to > draw a raised eyebrow. If you want the profession > to be respected by not only by those jealous > losers that got picked on in high school on this > forum, but the general public, maybe there needs > to be some changes made… Regarding: “unlimited income potential”, and “teachers, construction workers, and newpaper delivery boys become successful FAs every day” - I’m keenly familiar with this promise. Actually, one division of Citigroup is Primerica, and they don’t pay one penny as salary, and it’s a pure commission job. You can imagine the desperation of its employees as well as what they’re ready to do once they get the job. These are ex-criminals, guys with 2 DUIs, or people with drug-addictions, and in general, the sleazeballs of society. I remember actually going to an information session on them, the the very charismatic speaker mentioned how he was a former policeman in NYC (this was back in early '02 during 9-11 mania). He also highlighted how he was a former construction worker/carpenter, and I remember how he ranted about this job by mentioning - very loudly - some carpentry jargon that only an insider would know. Now, I’m skeptical that he was in fact ever a carpenter, and I’ve always totally doubted that he was ever a policeman in NYC. I also remember prior to this, going to an information session in Boston at the MorganStanley here. I remember one of the senior sales reps there, I believe that he has a PhD in Chemistry, was speaking about how rich he was and how he used to be a fisherman and how he sold “dead fish”. It was the most salesy, cultish, and circus-like performance that I’ve ever seen! He was talking about he didn’t buy this huge yacht because it wasn’t big enough, and in general, how wealthy he was. Also, he wasn’t pitching the goodness of the job, he was advertising/begging people to accept the job, is what it seemed to me. That was his tone of voice (“If I can do it, anyone can do it”). This job had a salary of $48K/year plus a commission, that you probably won’t see for 65 hours a week. I made it to the second round of this interview, and one useless fat guy didn’t like me because I didn’t have any sales experience, and to highlight the point, he said “I bang out 600-700 phone calls a day…” Now, within a year, I became a financial advisor at UBS, and believe me, he didn’t do 600 dials a day. NO FAT ASS LIKE HIM COULD WORK HALF THAT HARD. I, however, did 500 dials a day, and I worked every Saturdays. Anyways, anybody can be a financial advisor, especially if: 1. You have no scruples 2. You think that exploitation of the naive/innocent is justified 3. The status quo and group consensus is always right 4. You’re somewhat handsome, and you like wearing your suit in 90 degree weather 5. You’re a white male 6. You can BS BS BS and use fancy investment jargon, but not know what the hell it may mean.
Danteshek Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > why can’t we all get along? why do some people > seem to enjoy putting people down? just because > someone is an FA doesn’t mean that they are > somehow inferior to a portfolio manager. some FAs > make more than PMs and some less. it all depends > on individual productivity. the one FA I have > been in contact with (in managing my mother’s > affairs) has been an FA at Clifford Swan in > Pasadena. She is excellent, and a CFA > charterholder among many other things. If the financial adviser has a CFA, than she/he would do an ethical and value-added job, probably. But one of the problems of the FA industry, is that they have to take a very non-pertinent Series 7 exam. The exam has NO USE or NO APPLICABILITY or real world application. Sure, we learn about municipal bonds and options, but the true thing we need to learn about municipal bonds is the tax free nature of it, and regarding options - we NEVER SOLD options! Perhaps the best thing for the financial adviser’s respect is to mandate that everyone of them pass the Level I of the CFA. Then the job would be a lot less sleazy, and the financial adviser would get compensated a lot better.
I am not sure I understand why financial advisor would be compensated better if it passed level 1, given the nature of the bulk of the compensation (at least the bulk of most of them)…maybe Boston you can explain this logic to me? I dont exactly get it… I guess for me doesnt make you ethical, or more likely to be ethical, and I havent seen anything to suggest better FA “ethicalness” nor performance… Interested to hear your thoughts… For what it is worth I think talking salary on internet/forum is so stupid, other than honest education of expectations, etc…for so many reasons. (Boston, not directed at you) Think about it…no one ever mentions city, state, country, other perks, etc. I mean, from my friends in NY $100K is about 65K-75K tops depending on company benefits/travel/proximity/etc in Dallas, where I live. Then of course there is the fact that anyone can say any salary…I happen to make 1 Trill each year by the way and live in Dallas (I happen to own Turtle Creek Mansion by the way oh, and Treces).
What makes Weehawken rock? That’s were their Employee branch is now. They are useless. I heard that there was very little cold calling in the job and most leads were generated by some sort of seminar or event that they hold. What’s the failure rate at UBS?
I guess some people have brought up a good point: lack of quality control. maybe this is where my disconnect lies. It just seems that anyone can call themselves an FA, perhaps diluting the actual decent ones (which I am still not sold on but whatever). And nobody is comparing an FA to a PM(salary or otherwise)…but I have never seen an ad for a PM or analyst role where it does not require an ounce of experience or education. I don’t hate sales, our institutional sales guy is pretty knowledgable, a CFA charterholder, and pleasant. But I also know he is in sales, I know what his objective is, and am fine with that. I feel the FA role gets muttled, while it is a sales role it comes off as acting like it is doing the best thing for you all the time…I guess a fee-only advisor would circumvent this to a point which is good…ok now I am just rambling my apologies its a lazy week around here…
The only minorities I know in the retail advisory business are ones who have a large network of minority contacts. Otherwise minorities do not do well with whites. On the flip side, in the insitutional sales world there are a lot of minorities and women. As a fund manager I personally would rather be pitched by an Asian woman than a white man, call me crazy.
And I would like that pitch to be done in a seedy bar somewhere or a hotel room…
As I mentioned earlier, FA’s can be placed in two buckets. One is everyone and anyone who will pick up a phone and cold call, call friends/family, host lunch presentations etc. This is the 22 year old salesman who is building his practice. They push products that may not be well suited or needed to earn the greatest commission. Large shops have this atmosphere. The other bucket is a financial professional who has seen it all. They have experience behind them as well as a few letters behind their name (MBT, JD, MBA, CPA, CFP, CFA, etc). One I know in particular is a JD/MBT and specializes in trust/estate tax planning. The 22 year old fresh from the Prometric exam center won’t know a thing about this. The seasoned advisor goes into their own practice and does not sell products. They offer their professional advice to individuals who request it. I wish a greater line was drawn between these two individuals but there is not, hence the stereotypical hate towards financial advisors.
“The only minorities I know in the retail advisory business are ones who have a large network of minority contacts. Otherwise minorities do not do well with whites. On the flip side, in the insitutional sales world there are a lot of minorities and women. As a fund manager I personally would rather be pitched by an Asian woman than a white man, call me crazy.” So minorities fair better in institutional sales? Is it because it’s not dealing with personal finance?