Figured I would ask you guys since CFA people are pretty good strategic thinkers and odds are many have taken the GMAT and done well. What advice for studying would you guys suggest? I enrolled in a princeton review course but didn’t find it that helpful. It had a few tips but I wasn’t blown over with it. Any GMAT tips that you guys wish you could have given yourself before you started studying for the GMAT would be great. I’ve already put a decent amount of time into it, but will be putting a bit more in and take it in September.
It seems you are very busy these days for planning a wedding-exam strategy for 10 months later, while posting different threads, studying L3, CAIA, and now GMAT, too. I guess you have a day job too. Unbelievable. Not all people doing CFA have taken GMAT/GRE before. Many did but still many did not. I have not taken GMAT before. But a friend who took GMAT used only study guides and probably from more than one publisher. He did not enrolled in any those review courses. Just practice, practice, practice, and devoted a lot of time, probably more than his time to study L2 for this year. He got 720 and 6.0 in the written test, and is going to London School of Economics for M.Fin this September, which is his only offer received. He was rejected by Harvard, MIT, Boston U, Penn, Columbia, NYU, … forget exactly the list of which schools he applied for. It seems 720 is not that good at all. 
May be you should be aiming at 800. Good luck in all your exam and wedding.
whui Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems you are very busy these days for planning > a wedding-exam strategy for 10 months later, while > posting different threads, studying L3, CAIA, and > now GMAT, too. I guess you have a day job too. > Unbelievable. > > Not all people doing CFA have taken GMAT/GRE > before. Many did but still many did not. > > I have not taken GMAT before. But a friend who > took GMAT used only study guides and probably from > more than one publisher. He did not enrolled in > any those review courses. Just practice, practice, > practice, and devoted a lot of time, probably more > than his time to study L2 for this year. > > He got 720 and 6.0 in the written test, and is > going to London School of Economics for M.Fin this > September, which is his only offer received. He > was rejected by Harvard, MIT, Boston U, Penn, > Columbia, NYU, … forget exactly the list of > which schools he applied for. > > It seems 720 is not that good at all. May be > you should be aiming at 800. > > Good luck in all your exam and wedding. It all depends on your demographic. If you are a white male, yeah 720 doesn’t cut it these days. Pretty much has to be 750+, unless you were a doctor in Africa the past 5 years. You should really go to gmatclub dot com. Tons of resources - its like AF on roids for the GMAT.
Contrary to popular belief, most of the time the GMAT is just the “check the box” mechanism. Certain schools do value it more (such as Stanford for example), and a good GMAT score will help you out more if the rest of your application isn’t that solid, but if everything else in your candidate package looks good, the GMAT doesn’t matter that much as long as you score around 700 or better. Had I scored anything 700 or above (which I did), I wouldn’t give any thought to re-taking the test. whui – if your friend couldn’t get into any of the business schools you named above, there were other things holding him back. A GMAT score of 720 would not have been a detractor for him. My guess is that either his resume or essays were weak.
packattack4 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > whui Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > It seems you are very busy these days for > planning > > a wedding-exam strategy for 10 months later, > while > > posting different threads, studying L3, CAIA, > and > > now GMAT, too. I guess you have a day job too. > > Unbelievable. > > > > Not all people doing CFA have taken GMAT/GRE > > before. Many did but still many did not. > > > > I have not taken GMAT before. But a friend who > > took GMAT used only study guides and probably > from > > more than one publisher. He did not enrolled in > > any those review courses. Just practice, > practice, > > practice, and devoted a lot of time, probably > more > > than his time to study L2 for this year. > > > > He got 720 and 6.0 in the written test, and is > > going to London School of Economics for M.Fin > this > > September, which is his only offer received. He > > was rejected by Harvard, MIT, Boston U, Penn, > > Columbia, NYU, … forget exactly the list of > > which schools he applied for. > > > > It seems 720 is not that good at all. May be > > you should be aiming at 800. > > > > Good luck in all your exam and wedding. > > > It all depends on your demographic. If you are a > white male, yeah 720 doesn’t cut it these days. > Pretty much has to be 750+, unless you were a > doctor in Africa the past 5 years. > > You should really go to gmatclub dot com. Tons of > resources - its like AF on roids for the GMAT. Just a bit confused. Do you mean there is a favouritism among admission committees of those big names b-schools toward a Caucasian male domestic applicant over a foreign doctor, which translates into higher GMAT score requirement?
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Contrary to popular belief, most of the time the > GMAT is just the “check the box” mechanism. > Certain schools do value it more (such as Stanford > for example), and a good GMAT score will help you > out more if the rest of your application isn’t > that solid, but if everything else in your > candidate package looks good, the GMAT doesn’t > matter that much as long as you score around 700 > or better. Had I scored anything 700 or above > (which I did), I wouldn’t give any thought to > re-taking the test. > > whui – if your friend couldn’t get into any of > the business schools you named above, there were > other things holding him back. A GMAT score of 720 > would not have been a detractor for him. My guess > is that either his resume or essays were weak. numi - I think you are correct. Many “b-school application tips” sites emphasize the importance of high GMAT score, a super essay, and strong resume; over GPA (historical). They emphasize in order to beat other applicants, sure must get 700+ to be at the high end of the “middle 80 percentile”. Higher the score, the merrier, and it is definitely will raise some eyebrows and cover any weakness from resume and essay. Are those top b-schools named above that hard to get in, even more than LSE? And people better have strong essay, resume, GPA, and 750+ GMAT to bet considered for those top b-schools in the U.S. ? Is it the competition for M.Fin would be less fierce than MBA, i.e. 700+ M.Fin Vs 750+ for MBA? Is it like what most people say, only go to top schools for MBA or M.Fin, otherwise, don’t even bother with the time and money to apply to 2nd-tier or less well-known school?
whui Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just a bit confused. Do you mean there is a > favouritism among admission committees of those > big names b-schools toward a Caucasian male > domestic applicant over a foreign doctor, which > translates into higher GMAT score requirement? What I meant is that there’s so many white male applicants to b-schools, that they should remember that they are competing amongst themselves and not just the median score shown on admissions websites. The reference to being a doctor in Africa was something to stand out of the crowd, i.e. a white male goes to med school in the US and then goes to Africa to work in a clinic. He would most likely get the notch ahead of someone who worked as an analyst at a bank barring all else equal. Obviously that example is a bit extreme.
I can’t comment on the MFE, but for the MBA, GMAT is just one data point. There are routinely people with 750+ GMAT’s that rejected from the top schools (remember that the acceptance rate at the best schools is less than 20% in all cases, so this is understandable), as well as candidates with 660+ that do get in. The GMAT is just a data point, but 700 really is the “sweet spot.” Personally, I did NOT get above a 750 on the GMAT and still got into a top 3 business school. From my own experiences, as well as the anecdotes of friends and clients I’ve worked with, here’s how I would prioritize the relative importance of all the different things that go into your application (from most important to least important): (1) Work experience (2a) MBA essays (2b) Undergraduate institution - overall caliber of school, grades, awards, activities, etc. (3a) Recommendations (3b) Resume (4) Extracurricular activities and leadership (5a) GMAT (5b) Interview (6) Luck and other intangibles Of course, there will be certain activities and qualifiers in each of the categories that could make one thing more compelling than the other. However, my personal opinion of how much each of those factors matters is based on my assumptions about the average candidate. There isn’t a “magic formula” for MBA admissions, and there is a huge luck factor as well – a lot of the times, it just comes down to someone’s gut feeling about how compelling your leadership potential is and the likelihood that you’ll be able to help the school form an outstanding student body and provide your classmates with interesting perspectives and experiences.
Well I am a white male, working in India, but not doing anything altruistic. I’ve got average grades from a very competitive undergraduate institution. There is nothing I can do about those. My work experience and story is interesting so I’m feeling fine about that. I really just need to see about getting into that 700 plus category and then I’ll throw a bunch of mud at the wall. I’m not a primadonna so I don’t care if HBS doesn’t want me. I’m actually planning on doing it in Europe where I’m hoping being an American White Male that directs a company in India will make me somewhat unique. There are just waaaaay too many smarter white males in the US for me to compete with!
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > There are just waaaaay too many smarter white > males in the US for me to compete with! You are smart - to simultaneously implement and track multiple strategic planning in studying CFA exam, CAIA exam, scoring 700+ in GMAT, applying to MBA in Europe, doing they day job, impressing the boss, and the research of precise departure time from exam room and the optimal escape route for a wedding-exam situation. My Salute to you. P.S. The competition in the U.S. is stiff. That’s why my friend who got 720 in GMAT get accepted to LSE for M.Sc. Finance, but not any of the U.S. school. The competition for LSE is actually worse than the U.S., according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics “… The applications success rate for postgraduate programmes varies, although most of the major courses, including Economics and International Relations, consistently have an acceptance rate below 10%. Some of the very top premium programmes such as the full-time MSc Finance and the MSc Financial Mathematics have admission rates below 3%…”
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I can’t comment on the MFE, but for the MBA, GMAT > is just one data point. There are routinely people > with 750+ GMAT’s that rejected from the top > schools (remember that the acceptance rate at the > best schools is less than 20% in all cases, so > this is understandable), as well as candidates > with 660+ that do get in. The GMAT is just a data > point, but 700 really is the “sweet spot.” > > Personally, I did NOT get above a 750 on the GMAT > and still got into a top 3 business school. From > my own experiences, as well as the anecdotes of > friends and clients I’ve worked with, here’s how I > would prioritize the relative importance of all > the different things that go into your application > (from most important to least important): > > (1) Work experience > (2a) MBA essays > (2b) Undergraduate institution - overall caliber > of school, grades, awards, activities, etc. > (3a) Recommendations > (3b) Resume > (4) Extracurricular activities and leadership > (5a) GMAT > (5b) Interview > (6) Luck and other intangibles > > Of course, there will be certain activities and > qualifiers in each of the categories that could > make one thing more compelling than the other. > However, my personal opinion of how much each of > those factors matters is based on my assumptions > about the average candidate. > > There isn’t a “magic formula” for MBA admissions, > and there is a huge luck factor as well – a lot > of the times, it just comes down to someone’s gut > feeling about how compelling your leadership > potential is and the likelihood that you’ll be > able to help the school form an outstanding > student body and provide your classmates with > interesting perspectives and experiences. could not agree more with the list. I am a mexican american and my “sweet spot” is lower then my white counters. However, luck plays a huge part of it. Two examples: buddy applied to usc, ucla, uc-berk, penn…only gets into penn buddy has 620 and 3.2 also gets into penn story is huge in business school
Let’s hope story is huge as my GPA is not… although that was a long time ago. I’ve yet to meet a good looking female that got a +700 or more who didn’t get get into their dream school. In fact I even know two that got into Top schools who were both unemployed. I wouldn’t have thought getting made redundant was a story B-Schools would like. Since I’m the boss of my small company here in India I get to do pretty much as I like. Therefore I delegate grunt work and spend most of my time studying. This is how I’m able to do all the studying. I’m almost full-time reading. In the evenings I go and have the necessary meetings etc that bosses need to do. If you ever want to be a lazy boss, India is where it’s at.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Let’s hope story is huge as my GPA is not… > although that was a long time ago. > > I’ve yet to meet a good looking female that got a > +700 or more who didn’t get get into their dream > school. > > In fact I even know two that got into Top schools > who were both unemployed. I wouldn’t have > thought getting made redundant was a story > B-Schools would like. > > Since I’m the boss of my small company here in > India I get to do pretty much as I like. > Therefore I delegate grunt work and spend most of > my time studying. This is how I’m able to do all > the studying. I’m almost full-time reading. In > the evenings I go and have the necessary meetings > etc that bosses need to do. If you ever want to > be a lazy boss, India is where it’s at. are you hiring (so you can study)?
Hi numi, Can you shed some light on the recommendations? Does it have to be someone you work with? Manager, colleagues? What type of qualification are the school looking for in your recommendations? I am finding it difficult to prepare recommendation. Thanks in advance.
I agree with numi’s sentiment re: GMAT as one data point, make a good story etc… yuoska - It should be someone who works with you (at least one should be a current boss; but depending on firm culture and your relationship, it could also be a former boss) who can write specifically and honestly about your work. The qualifications of your recommender are less important than what they say about you and how ‘authentic’ those comments are. It may be helpful if one of your recommenders has an MBA, or went to the institution you are applying to. But from my own application experience and from conversations with admissions committee members, both before and after getting in, the adcom’s view is that they want an honest assessment of your work ethic/style/results/potential. For me, I scored between 700 and 750 - I used the GMAT practice books the first time I took it (~1600 practice questions). I didn’t score as well in the math as I would have liked, so I bought the Manhattan GMAT math books. Absolutely recommend the series - I felt that it shed a lot of light on the ‘tricks’ that GMAC puts into its test. I think its safe to say that if you can study for the CFA, putting just a fraction of that time into using study/learning materials should yield great results. Good luck
yuoska, most applications ask specifically for someone that can give supervisory insights about you – so typically that’s a manager/supervisor. Stanford is one school that asks for a peer recommendation but in most cases, you want someone that’s at least a level above you and that knows you well. As rustyrudder mentioned, what often matters more is that the recommender can speak candidly about your abilities…admissions committees can tell if the person writing the recommendation is someone that doesn’t know you that well.
you plan on studying for GMAT and CFA simaltaneously? Do you mind if I ask what kind of schedule your are looking at?
Thank you Rustyrudder and Numi, and sorry to OP for hijacking original thread. Would you mind if I shoot you guys an e-mail offline so I don’t hijack the thread further? I have a situation that makes it difficult to find two recommendation. As such, I am tossing the idea of actually asking a colleauge (similar level) to do it but am also concern about the implication.
Tikka, I am interested in your situation as I planned on studying for the GMAT along with L1 again, this coming fall. With your work schedule and the time given, what is your prep plan, if I may ask?