A well built modern AR will not jam unless you just refuse to take any care of it. It’s such a useless argument in a modern setting. Ok, so an AK is theoretically more able to fire but its only because the clearances are so wide that it can accommodate sand grains etc, if you shoot them at normal range the accuracy is comically bad and if you address that with a better build you end up with reliability worse than an AR. It’s also heavier, harder to clean and break down etc. If you go with a closed bolt design like the HK you get the best of both worlds, but the whole AK argument is so overplayed. To act like AR’s are not reliable is to ignore the insane conditions they get put through on special ops missions etc and the high reliability they function at. I think they get their worst rap from Vietnam on the early models which were far worse built and from boot camps where trainees are shooting guns that are on the line between continuing to use and the recycling bin.
Except in really cold temperatures.
Even that was pretty much solved with cold weather lubes.
I don’t think the jamming vs. accuracy thing is a big deal, especially if it’s being used in a house, for home defense. I just wanted to bring it up, because…I don’t know. Just 'cause.
If I were buying a rifle for self-defense, I’d buy an AR-15. If it’s good enough for the Marines, it’s good enough for me. Plus, .223 caliber is enough to stop a person from attacking you. (You can always put another round in them, if need be.) It’s lighter and more maneuverable than a .30 caliber. Sure, it won’t tear up a vehicle like a .30 caliber, and it won’t kill a bear. But it will certainly put a hole in a human being.
Question - why a rifle and not a handgun?
Any caliber is enough to stop an attacker, unless we’re looking at some end of the world scenario where you’re holding the last bag of rice and beans.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments, I really appreciate them. A few comments:
- I think I’d prefer an off the shelf rifle. In a few years from now, I may move to a state or city that doesn’t allow it and I want to be able to sell it quick and not lose too much money (so that’s why I was looking to Barrett and FN)
- Wanted .308 because it’s a common caliber, easier to find ammo.
- I’m looking for a shorter barrel since i don’t really plan on doing any long range shooting and it’s primarily a defense gun. SBR seems like a bit of hassle but would be open to a pistol and brace
- .223 or pistols are fine but i figured, why not have the biggest round possible if i need it? Would rather have way too much than too little. Don’t mind paying a couple grand more and have the best tool for something that never happens than to wish I had.
- shotguns were mentioned… i’ve actually never fired a shotgun, only pistols and my rifle. Wanted to go with something I’m familiar with. Maybe it’s smart to have a rifle, a pistol, and a shotgun, diversification haha Kel-tec KSG looks interesting (7+7+1 rounds of 12 gauge).
Dude just roll a dice and get either of these top three if you are dead set on a 308 (really wouldn’t recommend for home defense, you’ll lose quickness and maneuverability) and you’ll have no regrets and no problem for resale. The problem is the 308 rifles are generally heavier and longer and aren’t really the “best tool” for what you’re describing. If you’ve ever maneuvered a house with a rifle the enormous benefit of a shorter barrel, less unwieldy stock quickly becomes apparent and most of the knock down benefits you’re looking for can be achieved through different ammo loads. The benefits of a 308 would only really be realized beyond 200 yards. Also for what it’s worth most states with restrictions let you continue to own any guns you owned pre-moving to that state (at least MA does). If the DDM5V3 is out of stock everywhere you can probably find the DDM5V4 around, it’s a two inch longer barrel but great rifle. If these all look too long and / or your purpose is close quarters I would highly recommend staying with an AR15 in a shorter configuration.
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https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/719007090
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https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/78913
Shorter AR15’s
I have these two (the MK18 requires an FFA permit)
And these pistols are actually really awesome, my brother has one, no FFA permit required. The MK18 pistol is cool but my vote would strongly be for the DDM4V7P
https://danieldefense.com/pistols.html
'Merica, ■■■■ yeahh!
Yo BS — best home defense compact pistol that could be used for carry down the line? Go.
So I have an M&P Shield that I love (I’m a 9MM person), my brother swears by Glocks and the Glock G43 is getting rave reviews basically an instant legend. For home defense, full frame is usually just a lot better but I have to be honest, I love my M&P Shield so much that it’s beside my full frame and in a split second grab decision I would probably go with the Shield. I’ve been thinking about revamping my pistol lineup next year (haven’t put any real thought into it yet but will probably include at least a Glock and probably a Sig of some sort or maybe an M&P full frame, who knows).
I was looking at the shield but heard some complaints about the trigger. Haven’t fired it yet. Probably down to the M&P or P320 although those are back ordered everywhere I look.
What do you think of the M&P trigger?
I’ve been happy with my Glock 30, easy to field strip and take care of.
You can use magazines from the full size guns in the compact ones so that’s a plus.
Personally I think the trigger is great although to be fair I have never been particularly picky on triggers. I think most of the trigger complaints were on the 1st generation version which is what I have (2nd generation now) with the biggest change to the 2nd gen being the trigger change. I’m not sure what the triggers are like in CA, in MA the compliant triggers are terrible, but mine is the standard broad consumption PA / national version that was brought with me. Also if it bothers you for some reason you can always replace it with a drop in trigger kit, but I think it’s fine. I didn’t get the tritium sights and in hindsight wonder if I should have, although I’m still relatively ambivalent.
I would also personally recommend checking out the Glock G43 and at least trying to hold that, the P320 and the Shield and seeing which one fits your hand best and how you feel about the line of sight. All are awesome choices, so it really just comes down to ergonomics and once you shoot it a lot, even that will probably stop mattering. Also keep in mind that those guns will all feel different with the compact carry clip vs the extended clip which will be more ergonomic.
I’m pretty surprised at how heavily the gun inventory has been cleaned out everywhere, I think its a combination of people becoming more like doomsday preppers in their mentality with COVID and the unrest lately as well as the standard election year sales.
Of the pistols I have tried out, I definitely liked the M&P Shield 9mm the best. It’s small and lightweight, but it’s not a 380. I don’t like .380’s because they feel like toys, and I can’t grip them with my pinky finger.
Anatomical anomaly?
The shield is a single stack correct? Another reason I think I’d prefer the P320 is that the grip is more substantial. I’m not an experienced shooter so I think it makes sense to go with something with a little more heft. I realize that probably means I’d need something else like a shield if I decide to carry. My immediate goal is home defense.
Pistol for home defense? Glock 18C or bust
I mean you really have to choose. People always try to do this thing where they buy a full frame or larger compact hybrid and tell themselves they can carry but it never works out that way, carrying is a PITA even with a small gun. At the end of the day if you want a double stack then you don’t want a carry gun. Whatever you get it sounds like you should probably commit to shooting it a few times a week minimum for the first few months to build familiarity. At the end of the day gun people like to sit around and debate details the way golfers do clubs or whatever but it mostly doesn’t matter the equipment will never compensate for skill and familiarity.
No, the grip is too short. When I wrap my fingers around it, my pinky can’t “grab” anything, because there’s nothing left to grab.
And I agree with what BS said–double stack is too much for a concealed weapon. Plus, the heavier and bulkier a pistol is, the harder it will be draw and lock in. And it doesn’t matter what kind of round you have–if you miss, then…you miss. And if you hit them, then they’re going to stop harassing you. (Unless you hit them with a .22 and they’re on drugs or something.)
Sounds like a business opportunity: aftermarket grip extenders.