So when I’m wearing my Dustin Colquitt jersey, I’m just wearing a jersey with some random dude’s name on it? Damn.
^ Yes, sorry.
A game where a guy puts on his uniform and doesn’t play (or only plays in a handful of plays and doesn’t contribute to any of them) is NOT a meaningful presence.
Yes, Gronk has scored more TD’s than Witten. That’s partially because the Patriots have scored more than the Cowboys. That could be because the Cowboys have had a good run game and a good offensive line.
Yes, Gronk has ONE more ring than Witten. But again, there are 52 other players on the team. So it’s not like it’s a one-on-one game. (For the record, Jay Novacek has THREE rings. That must mean he’s 3x as good as Gronk, since rings are all that matters.)
I’m sorry, I can’t hear you. I’m busy looking for Gronk on the sidelines.
Oh wait–he’s not there.
Oh you thought I meant just this season. That’s actually funny that that still holds true, actually. Didn’t even think of that.
No, I meant in Witten’s extensive career he somehow still falls short of Gronk’s touchdown totals, which is honestly hard to believe. You know, because of that point you keep repeating, over, and over, and over again. How Jason Witten shows up and plays every game. Every season. So many more games played than Gronk. So many more. But, why does he have less touchdowns? That can’t be right. He suits up for every game. He’s the best! How can this be?!?
^Hmmm…that’s a good question.
Is it a coincidence that the league’s leading rusher in 2 of the past three years plays on Witten’s team?
Is it possible, however unlikely, that Witten could be run blocking so the their RB can score TD’s instead?
Gronk has more productivity this season than Witten, despite not suiting up. The difference is that in the games Gronk doesn’t suit up, somebody else will at least get to fill that position versus when Witten is on the field AND not producing. So, opportunity cost.
Bahaha. Get the fuck out of here. You’re done.
I also have no dog since I definitively know who the best TE of all time and the best active TE is.
Regular season stats only:
Witten has had 62 TDs. The Cowboys had 371 total passing TDs over his tenure. Witten made up for 16.71% of total TD production.
Gronk’s had 68 TDs of the Pat’s 231 total…for 29.44%.
I should do the same thing for yards, but I’m going to get drunk.
You know who else is done? Gronk!
You guys win this one. I’m going to go home and watch my team play their next game. With their starting TE on the field.
^ I can only imagine how badly you would be getting beat up today if Witten’s late fumble had cost the 'Boys the game.
Two fumbles in five years. Not bad.
Gronk has only had one in five years. But then again, he’s only played in about half as many games, because he’s hurt all the time.
And for the record:
Travis Kelce - 6 fumbles in 3 years,
Antonio Gates - 4 fumbles in 5 years,
Jimmy Graham - 5 fumbles in 5 years,
Greg Olsen - 2 fumbles in 5 years,
Jordan Reed - 4 fumbles in 4 years,
and…in his last 13 years as a TE, Tony Gonzalez only fumbled once.
^Travis has fixed is fumble-itis. 0 fumbles this year.
And the threw a towel at a ref. Bonus points awarded.
I can’t believe it took this many posts in the thread to get to the crux of the issue, which is what BS refers to here. What you need to look at when evaluating Gronk vs Witten is something similar to VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) which is used in baseball sabermetrics. If Gronk performs way better than any other TE, and Witten is a middle of the pack TE, then if you can play Gronk for more than half of your team games and use a replacement level TE for the other half, on a weighted average basis you’re getting more value out of that one TE slot than Witten offers over the course of a whole season.
With this point in mind, I’d venture to guess that every single football team’s GM would choose to have Gronk over Witten, even if Witten were still in his prime.
^Remember too, that in MLB, you have an unlimited number of players you can pull from (since you have all your minor league teams). In the NFL, you have rights to 53 people.
So if you decide to keep Gronk, you’re essentially wasting two roster slots, because you have to have a backup plan.
You need no such thing with a guy who’s reliable for all 16 games.
With 53 slots, literally everybody has a backup (not to mention injured reserve). Just get a good backup and actually use that player. Anyhow, people chase wins and better on field output. On the whole you will have more production given opportunity costs using Gronk and an average to good backup.
Like having two assets, one that returns 15% over a 6 month period and one that does 15% in a year. Assuming other assets have non-negative returns I want the first asset and then I can redeploy capital for a better year. If the second asset isn’t matching the first’s production (TD’s / catches / yds) on a per game basis, then my backup asset can even have a slight negative impact and I can still come out ahead.
2 fumbles in 5 years is pretty damn good, but you know you would have been hearing it today if that fumble cost them the game.
This is an honest question to which I do not know the answer. Over the 5 years where Witten has 2 fumbles and Gronk has 1, how many passes has each caught?
^ That would be a misleading stat. Most of Witten’s catches are near the sidelines. In fact, I think he’s the GOAT at catching 5 yard passes before trotting out of bounds.
Witten 390 catches, Gronk 273 but if you go last four years it’s 2 fumbles for Witten to 0 for Gronk. But on actual production it’s landslide favoring Gronk. On TD’s over the past 5 years its 21 Witten on 3,936 yards vs 41 TDs for Gronk on 4222 yards.
Which is the other overlooked point here. In addition to the opportunity cost from having to play Witten while another player gets to fill in for the injured games for Gronk and add further production, you also have Gronk getting far more output out of far fewer catches. Meaning you pick up additional yards hitting other targets and moving the ball on the ground on those plays you aren’t constantly hitting Witten for low yardage. I think these points about optimization and opportunity cost are what Patriots coaching is targeting, this should be obvious to a forum of analysts with some understanding of portfolio optimization.
Fixed that for me