Investment Banking - is it really THAT bad?

Here’s the thing. If IB is what you want, the CFA doesn’t add much value. There’s no point in goign the IB route and thinking you must supplement it with the CFA charter. bankers generally don’t have the charter

also, working 60-65 hours a week is going to be very rare. That’s like 8 am- 8m Mon-Fri. That’s what I would expect a VP or MD to have in terms of hours. For analysts or associates… I would say at least, think 80 hours a week, and mostly likely to include an afternoon on a weekend. not to mention you wil be at their beck and call all the time. anytime.

you will have downtime during the day, but part of your job is to stick around for the MD’s or VP’s to get the deal, or some idea to pitch. And you crunch it out. So you can find yourself doing not much, and then something gets loaded on you at 7pm and you got to stay and finish it before tomorrow AM.

Averaging 9 hours of sleep is asking too much for an IB role.

Unless you are on a very industry specific deal time, your real takeaway skills are modeling. you get fast at it, modeling M&A or LBOs … etc

You expect to see your girlfriend often in a long distance relationship, and you need a ton of sleep. Never-minding your qualifications (and nobody in banking cares about the CFA anyway), I don’t see how a career in banking will work out for you. You have unreasonable lifestyle expectations given the demands of the job.

"…Also I’m pretty worried the CFA will never materialize seeing that I may not have the time to study (given my sleep needs and girlfriend). With this experience, maybe the CFA becomes unnecessary though…

Rightly so! As your limitations and preferences stand today neither CFA nor IB seems to be your cup of tea. Decide your priorities and focus on one at a a time, that may solve your problem. You really have ‘a lot to think about…’.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a work/life balance, even if you are still relatively young. But it may limit your career growth to some extent, or at least slow it down. Personally, I would rather earn 50k for 40 hours per week than 100k for 80 hours. But if you are willing to make your career a top priority for a few years, you may have better options available.

I have not worked in banking myself, but none of my friends who have enjoyed it much. It was simply a means to an end (money, career advancement, etc.). I don’t know anyone who loved the actual work.

this post just made my morning.

QFT

Yes, IB is bad. It could be a lot better if IBs hired more people to minimize work load and be more efficient but that would mean smaller Pay Checks.

Take the interview and ask a lot of questions.

GS/MS or Hacksaw…

By the cocktail bar at a friend’s pre-game on 58th and 8th The tall, blond, athletic young man presented himself first. “Hi. I’m Prescott Moncrief,” he said, extending his hand with a well-practiced smile and MBA eye-lock, still debating whether he ought to have included his roman numeral (III) in his introduction. “Sup man, I’m Todd,” responded the other, grabbing Prescott’s formally outstretched hand around the thumb, forcefully wringing it, and releasing it with a loud snap that only he had generated. Todd then used the same hand to clumsily tuck in the loose pieces of his non-slim-fit shirt into his slightly baggy, pleated trousers and unsuccessfully balanced a dip-cup in the other. “So Todd, what do you do here in the city?” inquired Prescott, regaining comfort but still frazzled by the urban handshake. He couldn’t help but feel awkward as he shuffled his feet trying to dodge the stray dip-splitlets that might sully his new driving shoes. “I work for a boutique investment bank,” responded Todd cockily, smirking and now pulling up his pants over his temporarily retreated beer-gut, illustrating that this was one of those hardcore New York male-anorexia and exercise weeks. He would be spilling out of pants next week no problem after this weekend’s depression-gorge. “Oh I see.” replied Prescott as if the pieces had started to fall together. “I work in finance too. I work at Goldman Sachs,” replied Prescott, suppressing the urge to rip Todd’s to bits. He had just put together Todd’s life story: Todd grew up in a wealthy family in upstate New York or Connecticut, went to a state school (Tufts/Northwestern included) or tier-two Ivy like Cornell or PENN where he was a 3.0-3.3 GPA econ major and borderline drug addict. Nearing graduation, he incessantly tried to interview with every bank on The Street, cold calling the ones that didn’t even respond to his pathetic resume, and then botched the few interviews he actually managed to get by forgetting the impact of goodwill on net income. Finally, dear daddy the saviour swooped in and landed Toddkins a position at aforementioned “boutique,” where he has since toiled obsequiously under the tutelage of has-been DLJ washouts. Todd paused and collected himself. “Yeah, I mean, I just really wanted to be closer to the deals, you know. Get more exposure.” “Yes, of course. Very understandable,” replied Prescott, feigning belief and interest. He told himself he was above mocking his feeble conversation partner, but he could not resist. “So, done any big mergers lately? I hear Joe’s Deli bought a liquor store in The Bronx.” Prescott snickered. Todd instantaneously turned fire red. The chip on his shoulder was throbbing so hard it was actually starting to appear as a translucent mass. “F*ck you man. We just did a huge IPO of this trucking company in Ohio!” retorted Todd angrily, instantaneously realizing the idiocy of his statement. He muttered something, fumbling to recover, and then finally got out, “Well, I work really closely with our partners who have great connections in the industry!” Prescott just shook his head in disbelief. Here was a perfectly good factory worker trying to live outside his “position.” What a shame. “Todd,” Prescott said calmly. “I’m going to refrain from further ruining your few hours away from the testosterone-driven madhouse you call work. Actually, I think I hear your out of date, boxy Blackberry going off right now. That’s your MD. I think he wants you to bring him another coffee. But keep ‘trucking,’ they might even promote you to Excel next month!” Prescott paused, allowing the gravity of his insight and the wittiness of his pun to sink into Todd’s soul. Then he smugly snickered again, basking in his pedigree. “And I’m going to do you one more favor,” continued Prescott, unable to restrain himself. He reached into his pocket and removed his wallet. He flipped it open and grandiosely pulled out a fresh ivory business card with razor-sharp corners [hear: American Psycho sound effect]. The light shined regally off the aqua and white emblem. Holding it between his index and middle finger, Prescott concluded, “Here. Take this and put it in your wallet. Maybe then you’ll know what it’s like to work at a real bank. And maybe you’ll finally be able to pull a half-decent girl instead of that hog over there waiting for you.” And with that he flicked the card in Todd’s face and turned away sharply, masterfully slapping Todd in the face with the swooping sleeve of the sweater tied around his neck. Todd could do nothing more than gape into the space Prescott had just occupied. Memories of mediocrity inundated and paralyzed him. Images of report card’s with B’s, mid 1300 SATs sheets, cute face but overweight girls, and trophy chests with only JV letters ricocheted off his mind’s eye and piled together in one big sub-par hunk. Then the logic hit him like a blow to the gut—he was mediocre and so boutique investment banks must be too. The one thing he had thought separated him from the schmoes actually just illustrated how schmoe he really was. He sunk to his knees and let his head and prematurely thinning hair fall into his hands. He was a joke. *Moral: “Boutique” may be a “hip” sounding word, but remember: boutiques are cool in SoHo…not in Midtown. - See more at: http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2005/09/the-boutique/#sthash.n5DFMBIG.dpuf

^ LOL. That is one of my favorite write-ups on Leveraged Sellout. Actually, I think they are all my favorites.

I don’t expect to see her often - I was comparing to what I have now. 8-9 hours of sleep is only necessary if I have a astronomically difficult problem to solve. Expectations was a poor word choice on your part - I don’t expect it… those are ideals. There is a reason people here are saying everyone they know in ibanking is pretty miserable and it’s not because their expectations are not met, it’s because too many of their ideals are consistently being withheld from them. It would be nice to get more sleep, it would be nice to see friends/family, it would be nice have time to workout and eat healthy… after a while nope, nope, nope, and nope contributes to an overall feeling of miserableness. Most everyone, including myself, expects it to suck… but all that suck for an extended period of time I’m not sure many can understand the depressing pressure it’ll exhibit on your life without actually experiencing it.

Numi was partly saying that to enter into IB with that mindset of wanting this and that… is the wrong mindset to even start with.

People go in generally expecting servitude and miserable-ness. If you go in with " i would ideally like X, Y and Z", you’re going to be miserable x3 when you get there

That’s the way I felt initially. 60k for 40 hours or 100k for double the hours? Ignoring the long term, I would choose the 60k. But, if you were to say 100k for double the hours for 2-3 years only and then it continuously regresses while your salary continues to rise… I’m much more interested. That is essentially the debate I am having with myself. I might just say screw it, suck it up and be push through chaotic misery for 3 years… but the question that kind of remains unanswered for me is, exactly how much better does the quality of life get after those 3 years of suck?

Yea, and I’ve come to understand that. If I were to take this offer, I would engage that mentality, “this is going to suck, it’s going to suck hard. Don’t expect a life outside of work at all. Get the GF is on board with this. Put on the armor and go in strong and ready to be squeezed phyiscally and mentally.”

Dare I ask… do you at least get vacation time in IB? People on Wall Street Oasis say 3-4 weeks is pretty standard. When you take those vacation days… are they ACTUALLY vacations or are you still doing work? If you were to get 4 weeks of actual vacation that would make this experience MUCH easier to manage.

As an analyst/associate, taking 4 real weeks of vacation is not normal. People generally don’t take every vaca day possible (except MD’s). You can expect 1 full week (maybe 2). scattered with a day or two here and there to make 3 weeks. If you even get 3 weeks.

analysts generally don’t get 4 weeks. unless this is a recent new thing nowadays

No offense, but I question whether you have the right mentality going into a IB experience. There is a reason why the entry level positions are off campus hires. Generally, those people are not tied down and are prepared to do anything to impress.

None taken. It’s been 5 months since I graduated, but I am in a serious relationship and am not prepared to do anything to impress so maybe you’re right. I do want more excitement, challenge, and investment decision making in my career though. Maybe ibanking just isn’t the right route to get there. I just have never had an opportunity present itself so effortlessly to me before.

Don’t listen to these haters man. I’d lay a steep bet that only one of the former posters has been in IB.

If you want it, go get it. Be prepared for long days, late nights, weekends etc. If the team is cool, then it’s not bad. If you work for a tyrant, you’ll be beyond miserable.

If you don’t want it, then don’t sweat it, it ain’t for everyone.

Which is the exact opposite of what the OP seems to desire.

lol, call me crazy for NOT desiring long days, late nights, and weekends. Who desires that?.. Just depends on how much you’re willing to handle. We’ll see - I’ll know more after I have a conversation with them.

I’m not being critical of anyone for not wanting that type of lifestyle.