if this is how you feel. honestly, I don’t think you should go for it. you’re going to end up being a sub-performer against the other kids who are ready to do anything, and either you’re going to be miserable by trying to match them, or try less hard and look bad against peers, and then you may find yourself let go in within a year, and they replace you with someone who will do anything to impress.
As much as I hate the negativity, I can’t help but agree with that logic. If this ends up being the typical i banking position, I’m probably going to have turn it down. It all rests on the conversation - if they say they are an exception to the typical and things sound a lot less miserable than our expectations, then I’ll ask to talk to a couple of analysts on the team to see what they’re life is actually like. I’ll only pursue the opportunity if things are somehow unlike the hell of a picture everyone pained above. Judging by the fact the pay is inline with major banks pay and all the MDs came from big banks, I doubt the culture will be much different. We’ll see, but I’m sadly leaning toward not taking the position assuming it’s the typical.
He quoted Wall Street Oasis - should we stone him now or later? Also, this has painted a very scary picture of IB. I kind of always assumed it was embellished stories to make life seem more dramatic. Like how you always drank one more beer, conquest was 1 point higher out of 10 or the guy you fought weighed 10 more pounds. I respect the opinions of the above posters so now I’m kind of surprised the hype is true.
I can see where the on-campus recruiting becomes very important for a job like this as mentioned above. If I was offered something similar to your situation when I graduated I would have jumped for the chance, but three years later I am totally disinterested. This seems like a tough decision. I think you should make a list of pros and cons, but I also think you should try to track where you see this leading you vs where you’re heading now. Good luck and let us know what happens.
Tough doesn’t even begin to describe it. I feel no matter what decision I make I will be disappointed and have some sort of regret. I have to make the decision that will make me less disappointed in the long-term (what am I most willing to forgo) and boy is that difficult. I will definitely spend a long time weighing pro’s and con’s and talking it over with people close to me.
The story is incomplete. Here’s what happens next. The GS guy, let’s just call him the stud boy, is in his office sharp at 6 a.m. the next day because he is working on multiple deals and has stringent deadlines to meet. He has terrible hangover but is able to work because his work is extremely repetitive and he doesn’t have to think while working. The last time he remembers using his brain was when he had to calculate 5% of 100 (in his head!) during a client presentation. But he is actually considered a math wizard among his GS colleagues. Once all the new associates were hanging out at a sports bar and they saw pictures of basketball hall of famers (arranged in a grid) on the wall. While they debated the number of pictures in that list, our stud boy was able to calculate the exact number. Then he explained to his colleagues how he used the concept of rowsXcolumns to calculate that number. The colleagues were impressed to say the least.
So like a normal day, the stud boy skips the breakfast and frantically types away on his computer. After a couple of hours, as he gets up from his seat to get a quick sandwich, an AVP asks him to run 10 more sensitivity analyses and send him the results ASAP. A loud growl from his stomach sounds like a NOO but he obeys, like he always has. As he is finishing up the sensitivity analyses, owing to the lack of sleep, and food, he dozes off for a few seconds. He wakes up with a start, accidentally hitting “clear work” button on his software. So he starts it all over again and by the time he finishes, it’s already 7 p.m. in the evening. He gets a call from his old college buddies, who are doing a grand get together that evening. He hasn’t seen them for the last 2-3 years and he knows he’ll not see them for a long time if he doesn’t go today, but he has “important” work to do. His buddies don’t care much because nobody likes him anyway. Everyone remembers him as a mediocre guy who worked extremely hard for good grades, never did anything creative and participated not in activities that interested him but in the ones that look good on the resume. He added zero value to an interesting discussion on politics/movies/sports and always tried to change the course of a discussion towards finance. But in finance classes, when the professor asked a question that went beyond DCF, he was seen sending emails on his iphone to random people, begging for internships/jobs in the name of networking.
There is only one thing, in addition to the paychecks, that keeps the stud boy going. All these years he worked for GS, he was somehow able to keep his relationship from breaking. It’s been 4 years since he met her and his girlfriend has never complained even once. She was the reason he had his sanity intact in the last 3 years. He plans to propose her tonight, and if all goes well, he’ll try to land a job in buy side/PE, marry her and live happily ever after. He hurries through the work and leaves early (at midnight). He texts his girlfriend that he’ll be late as he wants to surprise her. He feels dizzy but gently touching the pocket of the trouser containg the diamond gives him strength. He gets back home, and tiptoes to the bedroom. But she is not there. She left a note though. He picks it but doesn’t want to read it; he knows its pointless - she never left him a note. But he reads it anyway. What hurts him the most isn’t the fact that she left him; he always lived in the fear that it may happen sometime. He is devastated to know that she had an affair all these years, while he worked his ass off for a better future. Their better future.
The scene shifts to a posh newly opened restaurant in midtown. Todd ( and his MD can be seen at a corner table having lunch. While discussing the deal they are currently working on, Todd steals a glance at a newspaper the man sitting next to them is reading. There is a photograph of a man on it. The face looks vaguely familiar. He pulls out his wallet and looks at the “fresh ivory business card with razor-sharp corners”. The name matches too.
PS: Excuse my awful english but everything I have written above is true…except the last part, of course!
You should clarify with your potential employer what their expectations are going to be. Unless you want to develop your skillset in a way that emphasizes transactional/heavy financial modelling to later moving into PE or a buyside firm I would not make the switch because the change to your lifestyle is simply not worth it.
Don’t do it… My flatmates work in IB and their working life is horrible… Its one thing to read 80 -90 hrs on a website and entirely different thing to actually work that many hours. Even I had initially thought that it can be managed for a couple of years but trust me you would be frustrated soon with such a lifestyly. Additionally most of your weekends would be screwed too. Yes money would be better but then thats not the only concern in life is it…
I remember my first job out of college. Worked 110 hr weeks. Only lasted 3 months. Then I worked a job that had me working nights and some weekends. Averaged about 55 to 60 hours a week in that job. I lasted at that position for about a year before moving on. Been at my current job now for almost 6 years, work 40 hour weeks and couldn’t be happier.
Job 1 - Fishing boat in Alaska for the summer. Salary - minimum wage/1.5x for overtime
Job 2 - Auto Loan collections for financing arm of a major car manufacturer. Salary $35k/yr
Job 3 - Fixed Income Portfolio Management. Salary - much more then previous jobs
Point? Go work on a fishing boat. They open up many doors down the road.
As for IB, I know one person in the industry. He’s been in it for 5 years or so. Hates it. Still works crazy hours. No girlfriend, no roommate, never home.
This is honestly a depressing thread for me. It sounds like the consensus is… yes, it really is THAT bad.
Very cool post CFAvsMBA. Regardless, my 2 cents is that IB is great if you want to hone up your skills in people skills. Most IBers that I know don’t like it but are addicted to the money they make and would not quit. You draw your own conclusion from that.,
I mean, even if you do have this “conversation” at the interview, do you really think that they are going to be super candid with you and tell you how bad it is, or how many hours you really work, or how it will suck you will to live? A lot of the recruitment process is full of empty promises to get people hooked that never add up to anything. Maybe I’m just bitter, but I’d rather take less money and have a work/life balance; it’s better to work to live than live to work. People are what matters, paint with all the colors of the wind. Insert cliches here.
I hear you loud and clear stunner. But what if this was something you just powered through for a couple of years and then jumped ship to a MUCH more accomodating career (even going back to corporate life).
As far as them BS’ing me - I’d ask to get the contact info of a couple of analysts. My conversation with them could be very telling I feel. They are much less likely to lie so that I come on board if I were to work with them - I think they would want someone on their team who is ready for what is to come.
Stunner, as a L3 candidate and someone who prefers to live a more enjoyable life, what do you do for a living?
No I totally disagree. While there are many roles where companies try to butter you into how good it is. IB is a category where most people are generally honest about how bad the lifestyle is. They spend time bringing you on and training you, and because they know how rough it will be, they will generlaly tell you what it will really be like and if you can handle it before you join.
They definitely don’t want to waste time having to hire another guy after you burn out. and have to start it all over again.
It’s the same reason why companies love hiring new bankers out of school who are willing to slave and torture. And why experienced IB roles REQUIRE previous IB experience, to know you were battle hardened and used to it already.
itera wrote, " why experienced IB roles REQUIRE previous IB experience". A great conclusion.
clearly you have 0 experience.
otherwise you would know there are definitely equity research roles that will hire out of industry without ANY equity research experience. and thus what I said has no room for sarcasm.
and congrats on the short post! it’s a relief not to see another novel from you that no one reads.
If you can not understand a spoof, really can not help. Come out of narrow ‘finance’ periphary and try to look at things more positively (if your stiff neck attitude allows so,) and you will cease to be the one whom every one reads but no one likes or appreciates! Anyway, thanks for your kind compliments. Keep it up.
Back in the day, I was literally addicted to a video game: World of Warcraft. I play hours on end. It was my #1 hobby back then.
However…
The actual time I spent on this “hobby” was nowhere near the hours people put into Investment Banking jobs. 60 hours a week was probably my record. 60 hours a week playing World of Warcraft and you deserve professional help. However, 60 hours a week in Investment Banking and you’re be fired in no time.
So put this into perspective. You can’t be passionate about investment banking to even think about it… you have to literally be addicted (and even beyond) if you are to tolerate the hours.
You have many other options in Finance though if this isn’t your cup of tea.
Consider front office asset management positions. More interesting and better work/life balance than IB. May not earn quite so much $$, but there’s more to life imo.
thank you for sharing