Look, I understand what you are saying with respect to due diligence and all, but you really seem to be glossing over the major point. These investors (naive, greedy or whatever) are still VICTIMS of a CRIME perpetrated by Bernard Madoff.
This thread is about what went on in Madoff’s mind that allowed him to perpetuate this. He saw other people cheating & getting rich. The cheating part of his biz was relatively small. He thought it was sustainable or maybe he had an exit strategy but didn’t time it right. I believe he saw other insiders greed and couldn’t differentiate between what he was doing wrong and what they were doing wrong… afterall, he was doing a lot of things RIGHT (legit biz in market making, naz chairman, giving to charity, etc.). The lesson I have learned is to distrust & question “confidence” in whatever form.
^^tobias. thats fine and dandy and yes he should be punished. he broke some laws for a long time. but people saying “i hope god shows you no mercy” and other great quotes, is a little much. if i were a religious man i’d say the apocolypse better be coming soon because i don’t think people can get any more greedy while being any more stupid and irresponsible. whatever, he jacked your money, but it was YOUR fault, not his. his actions are to be expected somewhere in the financial world so you made the mistake not him. your money, your responsibility. the laws are only in place so that MOST madoff-types are deferred so that you can have SOME trust in investment professionals. i’m not saying they’re not victims, i’m saying that a lot of victims put themselves in the positions to be victimized. would i knowingly choose to hang out in neighborhoods that are notorious for murder, rape and other crimes? probably not. does it matter if the neighborhood is notorious based on actual crime or rumours? probably not. if i’m going to a new neighborhood in a dangerous city to spend the day, would i check to see its reputation? probably. for this analogy, treat the entire street as a city and madoff’s neighborhood as a notoriously bad one. there were warnings about madoff’s fund, both blatantly stated and ‘too good to be true’ comments, but people kept going to madoff’s neighborhood. they heard it was a bad neighborhood, but once they got there, the gang leader treated them well, promised them the world, and gave them great returns and lifestyle. if the police break into madoff’s crib to bust him and you’re in there with him enjoying the fruits of the neighborhood’s labour, should you not go to jail as well (obviously the victims shouldn’t go to jail but they should bear a lot of responsibility for being that neighborhood/fund). if i put 10% of my wealth into madoff, got 50% of that back in dividends, then lost the rest, i can’t be pissed because i still have 95% of my wealth. even if i lost the full 10% i can’t be mad. its a foreseeable risk in the market as a whole. crime will never stop and its up to you to avoid being victimized. these madoff situations are the only way to SHOW people that there are other risks besides market and business risk. this is not a sad situation, this is an EXPECTED situation. ^^KJH. i agree and see it the same way.
I think it boil downs to… Being street smart. These investors obviously weren’t street smart so they get scammed. Owell, too bad. Thats life.
Why do some people assume Madoff is a sociopath? Because he stole a lot of money? It’s entirely possible that he knew what he was doing was wrong and just didn’t care because he wanted to make it big. It’s too simplistic to simply dismiss him as some sort of defective human being. How many people here would steal billions of dollars if they were confident they could get away with it?