CFAdummy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Pay to work for a commission job? You are out of > your mind to take that job. Not uncommon especially in the independant financial planning/insurance industry They bill it as a desk fee/office expenses or trainning fees. It can depend on your contracts esp wrt insurance. Are you selling their products, do they own the rights to the ongoing services fees or commission. Do you actually know what the total comp is on the products you sell? Are they taking from you and then still getting a piece of your comp?
FO = front office, dealing with clients, generating revenues for the firm typical example: investment banking, trading, equity research (I think this is considered FO even though it isn’t really a revenue generating aspect of the firm)
kblade Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FO = front office, dealing with clients, > generating revenues for the firm > typical example: investment banking, trading, > equity research (I think this is considered FO > even though it isn’t really a revenue generating > aspect of the firm) Okay, I am quite interested in trading. I had an interview with Swift Trade and they offered me a position (a month or two ago), but since it was full time we agreed that I could come back after my exams and begin then - if they had a training session going on. If not then definitely at the next training session. I like the idea of day trading. flynnch Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFAdummy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Pay to work for a commission job? You are out > of > > your mind to take that job. > > > Not uncommon especially in the independant > financial planning/insurance industry > > They bill it as a desk fee/office expenses or > trainning fees. > > It can depend on your contracts esp wrt > insurance. > > Are you selling their products, do they own the > rights to the ongoing services fees or commission. > Do you actually know what the total comp is on > the products you sell? Are they taking from you > and then still getting a piece of your comp? The commissions are somewhere in the vicinity of 2-2.5% of everything I sell, which is the mutual funds of the company and the insurance they sell. There are trailer fees, referral fees, etc… but I am not interested in paying for a commission only job. I’ll wait for something better, like a day trading job.
I don’t think there’s anything special with Swift Trade, I suggest you do some research on them. From what I gathered, some offices are good (training, employee attitudes, managers, ethics, etc) and some are bad. I was offered an interview there but I declined, the place seemed fishy to me. But some people say it’s a good firm to do a 6 months stint and see if you’re good at trading. If you are good and have made good amount of profits in the 6 months, look for a better trading firm, if you aren’t good, look for a new job cause trading might not be for you. Paying for a job, that pays you back only with comission is aboslutely stupid. Never, ever, do that. You want a comission based with a salary? Apply for one of those investment advisor assistant jobs at any of the Canadian banks. Their requirements are typically highschool diploma and CSC for such positions. I’ve seen plenty of them posted before. I still can’t believe you did not access your MBA school’s career center. Or your undergrad school for that matter. Even if it is the same school, they will most likely have different career centers for undergrads and MBAs.
kblade Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t think there’s anything special with Swift > Trade, I suggest you do some research on them. > From what I gathered, some offices are good > (training, employee attitudes, managers, ethics, > etc) and some are bad. > > I was offered an interview there but I declined, > the place seemed fishy to me. > But some people say it’s a good firm to do a 6 > months stint and see if you’re good at trading. If > you are good and have made good amount of profits > in the 6 months, look for a better trading firm, > if you aren’t good, look for a new job cause > trading might not be for you. > > Paying for a job, that pays you back only with > comission is aboslutely stupid. Never, ever, do > that. You want a comission based with a salary? > Apply for one of those investment advisor > assistant jobs at any of the Canadian banks. Their > requirements are typically highschool diploma and > CSC for such positions. I’ve seen plenty of them > posted before. > > I still can’t believe you did not access your MBA > school’s career center. Or your undergrad school > for that matter. Even if it is the same school, > they will most likely have different career > centers for undergrads and MBAs. I did access the career center. It has been one of my primary sources of job applications. However, they have failed to find me both an internship during my first year and an entry level position of any sort in the finance industry. Never-the-less I will continue to use their services as it is all I have. I am sure something will pop up with all my efforts. Regarding the swift trade job, I appreciate your advice and I will keep it in mind should I decide to work there.
At windsor week i met a whole team of people from CDP ( about 30 ppl) majority of them were doing level 1 & 2 and most of them already had some sort of Masters. From our brief conversaion I realised that Montreal is way more competitve than Toronto owing to the fact that it is a small city and most people do not want to leave . ANyways my point is that if you dont already have something lined up, I would look in Toronto . It may not be a whole lot better but atleast you will better odds of landing something . Have you looked at the major banks training programs ? They usually hire right out of grad school for thier rotational programme wherein you work across different areas for a few monthts each and then decide which area you want to stick with .
START YOUR OWN INVESTMENT FUND!!!
JonathanC Wrote: > The commissions are somewhere in the vicinity of > 2-2.5% of everything I sell, which is the mutual > funds of the company and the insurance they sell. > There are trailer fees, referral fees, etc… but > I am not interested in paying for a commission > only job. I’ll wait for something better, like a > day trading job. See as a job working for one company its a bad idea and if its not something that interests you then don’t do it. But the model is pretty standard in the indepent advisor channel. If you own your producion and the client files then afer a while it can be rewarding. The key is that in that case you would be running your own business. Yes there are really really low barriers to entry and it is definately a retail type job for the most part. If thats what you are interested in start as somebody’s asistant and see how the system works. The top people usually pull in between 250k-500k + per year. In addition they own the client base which is a saleable asset when they retire or want to leave. In the case above they are paying you on a grid of about 50% pretty standard to start but way below what one should be able to negotiate.
Rasec Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > START YOUR OWN INVESTMENT FUND!!! Ok, So how do I go about doing that? Do I have to go and recruit new clients to invest money? With no experience can I just ask one of my more experienced and unemployed friends from class to join me in this Investment fund start up? Is it something as simple as going to city hall, opening up a company for ~100$ and advertising my services?
JonathanC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rasec Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > START YOUR OWN INVESTMENT FUND!!! > > > Ok, So how do I go about doing that? Do I have to > go and recruit new clients to invest money? With > no experience can I just ask one of my more > experienced and unemployed friends from class to > join me in this Investment fund start up? Is it > something as simple as going to city hall, opening > up a company for ~100$ and advertising my > services? My point is, if i cannot find the opportunity then you should consider creating your own opportunity. It all boils down to how badly you want to be in asset/investment management. If you really want it bad enough, anything is possible. I am not sure how to start an investment fund, here goes a wild guess: 1- Create a name for your fund 2- Apply for a tax number 3- Get your company legally incorporated or (LLC, etc) 4- create a website 5- write your investment mandate and follow it until you die. 6- put all your saving 7- ask friends and family to trust you with their money 6- seek other investors ( u can try crashing gala events) 8- 9- 10- maybe someone else can add their comments
Please dont follow this guys advice. Trade a bit with your own money first and see how you go. And keep trying for ajob, you need to learn this stuff, then have a go in a couple of years on your own if you still want to Rasec Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JonathanC Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Rasec Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > START YOUR OWN INVESTMENT FUND!!! > > > > > > Ok, So how do I go about doing that? Do I have > to > > go and recruit new clients to invest money? > With > > no experience can I just ask one of my more > > experienced and unemployed friends from class > to > > join me in this Investment fund start up? Is it > > something as simple as going to city hall, > opening > > up a company for ~100$ and advertising my > > services? > > > My point is, if i cannot find the opportunity then > you should consider creating your own opportunity. > It all boils down to how badly you want to be in > asset/investment management. If you really want > it bad enough, anything is possible. > > I am not sure how to start an investment fund, > here goes a wild guess: > > 1- Create a name for your fund > 2- Apply for a tax number > 3- Get your company legally incorporated or (LLC, > etc) > 4- create a website > 5- write your investment mandate and follow it > until you die. > 6- put all your saving > 7- ask friends and family to trust you with their > money > 6- seek other investors ( u can try crashing gala > events) > 8- > 9- > 10- > > maybe someone else can add their comments
Rasec Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JonathanC Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Rasec Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > START YOUR OWN INVESTMENT FUND!!! > > > > > > Ok, So how do I go about doing that? Do I have > to > > go and recruit new clients to invest money? > With > > no experience can I just ask one of my more > > experienced and unemployed friends from class > to > > join me in this Investment fund start up? Is it > > something as simple as going to city hall, > opening > > up a company for ~100$ and advertising my > > services? > > > My point is, if i cannot find the opportunity then > you should consider creating your own opportunity. > It all boils down to how badly you want to be in > asset/investment management. If you really want > it bad enough, anything is possible. > > I am not sure how to start an investment fund, > here goes a wild guess: > > 1- Create a name for your fund > 2- Apply for a tax number > 3- Get your company legally incorporated or (LLC, > etc) > 4- create a website > 5- write your investment mandate and follow it > until you die. > 6- put all your saving > 7- ask friends and family to trust you with their > money > 6- seek other investors ( u can try crashing gala > events) > 8- > 9- > 10- > > maybe someone else can add their comments Ok in Canada it is a little bit more than that. You have to register as a portoflio manager with the provincial securites commission. Currently you must have CFA or Level I CFA and CIM plus a few years expereince managing a portfolio over a certain amount (its only $5 million on a discretionary basis) but you still need the experience. If you are a broker and a member of IROC you can be a PM with your CIM or CFA but in either case you have to be an APM for 5 years (associate portfolio manager) first. I have seen people get rejected for not having the experience even with a full CFA. No don’t just start up your own firm you need a bit of experience to see how it all works or you can hire people who can show you how it all works and write you operations manual for you and assist you when you have your annual audits from the securites commission.
why are you telling this guy to manage other ppl’s money when its obvious he isn’t even close to that level yet. passing the CFA with an MBA means nothing if you can’t get returns. I was in a similar situation such as you jon. go work at an entry level job at the bank like discount brokerage and move your way up. within 3 years, you’ll have what you’re looking for. I would put aside ibanking for now.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > why are you telling this guy to manage other ppl’s > money when its obvious he isn’t even close to that > level yet. passing the CFA with an MBA means > nothing if you can’t get returns. > > I was in a similar situation such as you jon. > > go work at an entry level job at the bank like > discount brokerage and move your way up. within 3 > years, you’ll have what you’re looking for. > > I would put aside ibanking for now. Thank you for some direct and relevant advice. Suggestions like yours from such a similar perspective are what I need right now. In the past two months I have solidified my resume application process and have even had the fortune of having interviews for entry level positions at National Bank and L’Oreal, but my lack of fluency in French was the sole reason why I didn’t get the jobs. Aside from that I was the first candidate to be interviewed at NB and L’Oreal called me for an interview the following day after my application submission. Both companies told me (during the interview) that entry level jobs in Quebec are Francophone positions and managerial jobs are predominately Anglophone. I have no qualms with moving away to Toronto or anywhere else in Canada, America, or the world for that matter. So it seems as if I can now convey my skills appropriately for the position and have a decent competitive stance for entry level jobs (just not in Quebec…). Now that I have your advice I will pay attention to entry-level brokerage operation positions at banks, which is something I never thought about doing before. I’ll keep you all informed!
I don’t know why FrankArabia mentioned ibanking. Did you want to get into that? If you’re going to get into brokerage, you’ll basically kill all your chances of doing ibanking in the future, brokerage isn’t finance related at all. Your chances are already handicapped because you never secured a summer or full time position in ibanking or anything relevant such as corporate development or transaction advisory at the big 4. Most people who don’t land into ibanking after undergrad still have a good shot at it once they do their MBA (at a good school), but that’s probably not an option for you anymore. This is going to sound harsh, but I’m not trying to bash you in any way, I’m just trying to point out where you messed up (my opinion, not a fact) - read on. Going back to original post, your MBA program sounds like a complete waste of money and time. You’re using CFA textbooks in it 90% of the time? You’re learning the same material as any person who is not in your MBA program but is doing CFA exams on their own. I see absolutely zero value added between doing your MBA + writing CFA exams vs. writing CFA exams only. I’m not surprised you got accepted into it, it sounds like a glorified prep course for CFA exams. Also your MBA is in investment management, I highly doubt any ibank would even look at your resume. Investment management is buy side, ibanking is sell side, completely different things. I think you pidgenholed yourself with this MBA into investment management field, of course if that’s what you want to do, then maybe it doesn’t sound as bad. But again, ibanking and investment management are like apples and oranges, no wait, apples and rocks, you can’t even compare. I think you have to do a search of investment management firms in your area and contact them about job opportunities. These firms are typically small - a handful of employess - but they still can have significant assets under management (AUM) if they manage institutional money.
i know what this guy is sorta going through. all designations, no experience. another piece of advice would be to sort of ignore your paper plates (designations). ppl will say, “wow, you have your MBA and CFA too?? you should get a really good job”. Ignore that nonsense. that only makes you think you deserve more. don’t fool yourself that those designations are hard to get, they’re not. they’re normal. his chances of getting into ibanking are extremely difficult from what i gathered. I had two interviews at ibanks due solely to someone i knew who knew someone. if you did your MBA in investment management, then ibanking problably isn’t even what you want to do. adding the fact that ibanking jobs are slim right now basically kills all chances that you may have for now. i say look at a brokerage because i know a lot of ppl that made it out of there after doing it for a year (including myself). you must face reality. some ppl get to start their careers off with a bang, others have to grind. If you haven’t made it into an ibank as an analyst right out of school, tough luck. but you have to move on so take the best you can get and starting hustling. if you have skill, ppl will notice.
I really don’t mind grinding. Honestly, I’m not expecting to land a dream job or anything like that, after all, I need to know more about the field in a working position before I can advance through it, right? So, I banking is out of the picture, and to be honest it never really was a main focus of mine simply due to the job descriptions… I don’t like sell side stuff. The positive side of my situation is that I can consider almost any entry level position related to finance at any company in the world. You say brokerage is good for someone like me, I’ll check it out because I can and I am starting a career, not continuing one. I think this flexibility gives me an edge in finding a job, but at the same time daunts me by the large possibilities. That’s why when i get advice like ibanking is not for me, but brokerage is something to consider is great advice that will help me narrow down my choices along my way. Heck I am even applying to managerial training jobs at large well known companies - this is how flexible I am. having said all this, I think the pace of the economy is why everything is going at a molasses-pace right now. I’ll keep applying (after the CFA exam, but not now) for jobs, and tutoring in the mean time - it helps me earn a little extra fun money and make some good connections! Some of the clients I have work at finance companies, and since I can tutor in B.Comm courses and CFA level 1,2, and hopefully 3, and CSC material I’ll be meeting more and more finance related people.
That last part will probably land you a good job in the future. I see it as a little more general you have to make money to survive… so a job is good…if its in your general field then thats better … if its on the specifc track for you then great but not everybody knows what they specifcally want to do. Alot of people fall into a position. Not necessarity great but thats life. You education is positive and will allow you to move up further in the future but everybody has to start somewhere and it could also make some entry level positions a bit harder to get especially at smaller firms. I think there are alot of jobs out there but employers want to get value for what they are paying for and remember there is a risk in hiring a new employee and spending the time and money training them only to have them leave.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > i say look at a brokerage because i know a lot of > ppl that made it out of there after doing it for a > year (including myself). you must face reality. > some ppl get to start their careers off with a > bang, others have to grind. If you haven’t made it > into an ibank as an analyst right out of school, > tough luck. but you have to move on so take the > best you can get and starting hustling. if you > have skill, ppl will notice. Frank, what kind of jobs did these people who were in discount brokerage get?
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