kblade Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Going back to original post, your MBA program > sounds like a complete waste of money and time. > You’re using CFA textbooks in it 90% of the time? > You’re learning the same material as any person > who is not in your MBA program but is doing CFA > exams on their own. I see absolutely zero value > added between doing your MBA + writing CFA exams > vs. writing CFA exams only. I’m not surprised you > got accepted into it, it sounds like a glorified > prep course for CFA exams. > Also your MBA is in investment management, I > highly doubt any ibank would even look at your > resume. Investment management is buy side, > ibanking is sell side, completely different > things. > I agree, It sounds like you would be in the same position if you didn’t go to business school, and just studied for your CFA Business school is for networking, interning, or their career services. On that note, is there anyone in your school helping you find jobs as well? At your school, on average, how many people find jobs right away?
corp finance jobs, back office jobs at wholesale divisions, advisor roles, trading assistant etc. the DB is usually the first job someone pulls right out of school. My estimate suggest 3 years and someone will land their gig of choice. like i said, nothing fancy. But considering most do not have their CFAs or MBAs, doing DB for 1 year and moving on is not that bad. these aren’t the same types of ppl on here who study hard and know a lot of finance. i’m not saying its the best,but when you look at it, its not that bad considering you’re moving up in the bank. former trader Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FrankArabia Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > > i say look at a brokerage because i know a lot > of > > ppl that made it out of there after doing it for > a > > year (including myself). you must face reality. > > some ppl get to start their careers off with a > > bang, others have to grind. If you haven’t made > it > > into an ibank as an analyst right out of > school, > > tough luck. but you have to move on so take the > > best you can get and starting hustling. if you > > have skill, ppl will notice. > > > Frank, what kind of jobs did these people who were > in discount brokerage get?
Well well… Three years has flown by and so much has happened… First THANK YOU all for your advice and for sharing your experiences with me and all the others who could benefit. You have all helped a lot and I don’t think I could have pointed myself in the right direction without your input.
So let me summarize real quick what happened in the last three years (if that can even be done). After graduating I looked for work and continued to tutor and network in Montreal, but French was the limiting factor. By fall of the year I graduated I took a job at Wal-Mart with the intention of working my way up! At first I didn’t tell them I had an MBA or was studying towards the CFA. They only knew I had a B.comm. I made management aware I was looking to continue moving up in the company and they began giving me tips and advice on how to do it. The store manager even paid a little bit more attention to me and we developed a good working relationship that allowed me to (on occasion) demonstrate my decision-making & business skills. After 9 months I was encouraged by the store manager to begin rotating into departments that were normally done with official store manager trainees. Basically I was being unofficially given the opportunity to participate in the start of a store manager training program. If I had to go back and do it all over again I would have stayed longer. Yeah the pay is low but it was really close to my family, co-workers were so friendly, the benefits were great, and the ability to network with management was awesome because they were always walking around in the store saying hello and reaching-out to employees. Even though the position and its potential were great, I always kept my eye out for something better. After 9 months of enjoying working at Wal-Mart I had received an offer I couldn’t refuse.
It was for a national business news company headquartered in Toronto. The job was to teach their new financial software to the chartered banks! So I gave Wal-mart my two weeks notice and took the job. It combined everything I love: technology, teaching, and finance all into one role! I loved this job even more that Wal-Mart but it was a contract position so after 11 months I was done. I gave presentations to big rooms of professionals, answered questions, represented the company I was working for, and came around as a good team leader and competent with regards to the topics these professionals were asking questions about. Of course I know you are all thinking about how I should have used this as a networking opportunity… well I did and I impressed a lot of people with the presentations I did and knowledge I demonstrated. As a result I applied for a commercial account manager position with one of the banks and was offered it on the spot! I didn’t take it, though because 1) I wanted to finish the contract I was currently on and 2) I didn’t like the idea of building a portfolio of clients from scratch… So I continued on and performed so well that I was one of 2 who had their contracts chosen to be extended out of the 15 people who started. I loved the job, was passionate about it and would have done it as a full-time career had the contract not of ended… but it eventually did and I left with a great performance record - just like I did at Wal-Mart.
Then came the most important learning discovery of my life - job placement agencies. After Reuters I went to a job placement agency. I explained all my education, how I wanted the chance to demonstrate my skills with contract work and then create opportunities for myself within whatever organization I would have worked the contract for. The agent found me contract work as an account manager for a really large private tech firm really close to my family. The position was for 6 months and I worked hard. I was part of a small department (5 people) so I made extra sure to treat my colleagues with respect and courtesy and to know the duties of my role cold so they could count on me. I felt really comfortable talking with my manager and having her introduce me to her manager friends. I never said anything about my MBA after being hired or when I spoke to her manager colleagues. I wanted my hard work and character to come across as impressive, just like at Wal-Mart. Just like the previous financial training job, the contract here had been extended several times. By the end of the contract I was looking for opportunities to apply to in the company and I found one that was an analyst to support the sales team. Lots of excel. And I love excel. To death. So I told my manager I was looking for that position, she gave her recommendation and I had the interview and was offered the position.
Of course fate has its own way of throwing conundrums in my face… at the very same time I was offered the analyst job, I was also offered a job as a Commercial Account Manager at a Canadian Chartered bank. It was to be far away from home (several provinces over) in a small town. I wanted to work in a bank so badly I took the offer. I saw it as an opportunity to see the country, gain some (somewhat) relevant experience, and some job security in a really large financial institution where the opportunities are abound. I started the position last year and have enjoyed it, but after a year I don’t LOVE it like the other jobs I had. The town is really small (like 40’000) and the distance is far from home (like 3’500km). All in all I really don’t like the job because it’s sales-oriented and I had no idea it would be so sales-oriented. The pay is better and I am in the company to make full use of the CFA skills but it’s just not the right role. In any event I am going to try and keep my head above water and apply for other positions closer to home & family and in a larger city center.
It has been an interesting journey and I suspect it will continue to be interesting but I have a better idea of what I want and where I want to go. Being close to family, enjoying the job & colleagues, and being in a large city center are huge factors I am willing to trade for salary (if need be). It has been a good journey and thanks for helping and following! If you have any advice on how I can move around in the bank to get closer to home, please let me know! You can be sure I’ll apply it.
Awesome man and congratulations. Only advice is to continue networking within your bank for opportunities (but you seem to have a good handle on that). Also, be careful about moving again, I did a similar thing, three quick jobs about a year a peice to get where I want to go, but then I settled into my current position for three years (now looking to move somewhere again). Moving within the firm would be your best bet as that still counts as being with the same firm so it will help you get the job you want while getting some continuity on your resume. As you’re in sales focus on selling your people skills and industry familiarity in analyst type interviews.
Anyhow, good job, I bet your family is pretty proud of the job you did working your way up, especially in this environment.
If you want to go back to Montreal, you can check out potential employers in this file : http://www.cfimontreal.com/en/pdf/CFI_carte_geopicturale_en.pdf Check out page 7/8 under the big picture.
Also, I recently found an agency called Kerosene and they have very nice opportunities : http://www.keroseneinc.com/en/jobs/
Good luck!
Jonathan, I remember your thread. Can’t believe it’s been over 3 years. Nice to know you’ve gained a ton of experience and know more what you want. Montreal isn’t a finance hub, connections and a strong network are extremely important.
Regarding kerosene, do you know if the jobs appear in Indeed.ca search engine?
I’m new here and I feel so fortunate to have come across this thread. Having just graduated and pass level I, I’m still unsure about what direction I want to go in with my life in terms of career. I’m just happy with having a job right now but I know down the line I’m going to have to make some tough decisions. Reading your post, I can see and feel that you have your priorities in the right place. It definitely feels personal and I feel the same way definitely in terms of family and friends, career, and location. Whatever is in your future, good luck to you! And I hope you keep us updated!
As far I know Indeed doesn’t catch jobs from Kerosene. I really like Indeed and it’s a good tool especially with the + and - keywords you can really narrow down the search but the more I get to know the industry in Montreal, the more I see that it doesn’t cover that much of the jobs. I wish I had programming skills I would create a kickass finance / accounting search engine.
What else do you know about the industry in Montreal? I feel Micheal Page is the best agency.
amazing story
Micheal Page has some good listings but it’s not very active in Montreal if I look at the postings on their site. There’s also Ranstad (nice postings on a regular basis). Quantum is mostly administrative stuff. Jobboom is popular but there is too much postings of agencies.
What I meant by knowing the industry is knowing who the players are and where to look for work. I used to rely on aggregators like Indeed, Jobboom, etc. but then I realized that the most interesting jobs are usually just sitting there on the employers careers site and you have to go check their site frequently. The link I posted above (cfimontreal) is a very good list of the potential employers.
Got an interview yesterday and the director was very relax and we talked like we were old friends. He said Montreal is a small finance community, that everyone get to know each other and most jobs postings for the “real” jobs are never actually posted. Stuff that I already knew but wanted to get confirmed by an insider. Job is entry-level and he told me than more than 200 people applied. He said that it can double or triple for more advanced jobs. Honestly, Montreal has way too much universities and finance programs for the amount of employers available.
Tahi, do you still believe applying online works? Like you mentioned, firms are receiving at least 200 CVs for every position. Seems like a long shot to me.
Jon…thanks for the update. I’ve been reading your posts. Congrats on passing all three levels. I’m planning to move to Montreal next year and trying to get into the same “mba with complete cfa integration progam” you did. I’m taking cfa level 1 this coming june 2013. After reading your posts, I now have a second thought. I really like finance too. I graduated in BS business info sytem. I’m actually trading derivatives and managing my own portfolio. But that doesn’t count as credible work experience in CFA. In stead of taking mba-cfa program, do you recommend taking mba alone and doing cfa on the other side by myself?I know it’s gonna be really hard even finding the internship without the work experience outside.
Great story. Definitely made my day having stumbled onto this thread.
If you are looking to get into finance and are relying on the MBA/CFA program to help you do it, I wouldn’t put much weight on how effective the alumni network or job placement career center is. The program is relatively young and the University itself is mediocre so the Alumni network and career placement/assistance center is relatively ineffective. You’re sure to make friends with people, but trying to leverage the connections in the program is difficult. I suspect it would be difficult at any other school, but take McGill for example, I know people who have been able to network the alumni there far more effectively than at Concordia.
If you like finance perhaps a more technical route like MSc in Finance would be beneficial and give you the precise skills to flourish in a purely analytical environment. The CFA can totally be done independently especially when the material you are studying at school overlaps it. In retrospect I would have enjoyed the opportunity to do both independently; it would have 1) eased the stress because you cannot pass onto the second year of the MBA if you fail level one and the third year if you fail level two, and 2) allowed me to have more leeway in choosing which graduate degree to do in junction with doing the CFA independently. The program you are referring to is very expensive. Quebec has a low-cost educational system and there are many MBA or MSc programs that you can graduate from far more cheaply than the privatized MBA/CFA program referenced here. Whilst doing the CFA on your own you would end up having the same credentials for far cheaper.
One major disappointment of the program was the summer internship that was a requirement to graduate from the program. Although stated as a requirement, I never received enough support from the University to secure a summer internship, despite having visited the career center numerous times to speak with the career counselor. Somehow my transcript says I successfully completed the internship. I find that very disconcerting to young students like you and I who are trying to make our way into finance. We need talented support from the career placement center and Concordia does not have it. The manipulation of my transcript by the University is evidence that they are not willing or able to help young graduates as well as other Universities. McGill on the other hand has an excellent reputation for Alumni and career placement.
Ultimately the choice is up to you. I feel that the privatized MBA/CFA program is extremely expensive and generic (regarding the MBA). I do, however, feel that I have benefited from graduating with an MBA and having passed all 3 levels at such a young age. That being said, I was young and having the guidance through the CFA was good. You have experience so you will most likely not need guidance through the CFA, so why pay so much for an MBA to guide you through the CFA when you can do the CFA on your own and choose from a variety of MBA or MSc programs that better suit your desires and interests.
Thanks for the reply. I think I’d go for regular MBA or MSc program and do CFA on the other side. MBA with CFA program is 7 to 8 times more expensive than the regular MBA at JMSB. It’s still a long journey for me to complete both.
I enjoyed reading the whole 5 pages, I wish you are doing well in your career & personal life.
Hello again! Another five years has passed and a lot has happened! Firstly, thank you to everyone in this thread who took the time to help me out. Looking back at the first several pages of this thread I can see how difficult it was for me to start out a career with no experience, (perhaps) too much education, and a poor economy. The amount of job hunting and flexibility was much more than I had anticipated would be required, but none-the-less, with all of your help and my persistence, it certainly has shown I carved out a nice career for myself - from selling tires at Wally-World, to commercial Banking, to full-fledged credit analysis.
Picking up where I last provided an update, I was actually able to find a job closer to home in Toronto, via a head hunter, where I was doing mid-market commercial banking. It was a mat-leave contract position, but gave me the exposure to higher-dollar deals in a major urban center with another Chartered Canadian bank, closer to home. The position went very well, but ultimately the contract ended. I tried looking for other similar jobs in the Bank but there were limited openings at the time. During my search I also expanded to consider pure credit (not credit & relationship management together) jobs and found myself interviewing for many government positions that involved credit analysis-type work (i.e. EDC, FCC, BDO, CMHC). After a few months of searching and applying on line, I landed a great position within capital markets credit with the crown corp. mortgage insurer CMHC.
I’ve been in this role for three years and a bit now, and I have done credit reviews on foreign governments, foreign agencies, Canadian provincial governments, municipalities, domestic airports, pension plans, media telecom companies, national big-box consumer staple/discretionary companies, Insurance companies, energy companies, and Banks! These reviews supported limits of hundreds of millions of dollars, which fit in perfectly with my desire to work up the dollar-approval chain in credit analysis. During my time in this role, I took initiative to specialize in a very unique, but important field called NHA MBS Securitization.
As a result, over the past two years I have been the lead analyst reviewing all NHA MBS/CMB program participants (from a credit perspective) in Canada (about 177 credit unions, banks, mortgage brokers, insurance companies, etc…). I’ve also had the privilege of hiring and managing the workflow of support analysts and summer students for direct support to this objective. I can honestly say I have developed an expertise that people rely on and I enjoy working in, which helps many people make some pretty important decisions. Also, as suggested earlier, I am not being paid unfairly for my skills.
The road to get here has been long, but persistence pays. I built this career on my own job hunting skills, applying online, never networking into a role. I was selected fairly based on my competitive merit and skills. I hope this story gives people like me starting off in the field some hope that just because they don’t know anyone doesn’t mean they need to network themselves into a position they may not be a good fit for.
Thanks for sharing the update!!! 