needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > TheAliMan Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > For you, anything, > > > http://media.ft.com/cms/c3852b2e-6f9a-11de-bfc5-00 > > > 144feabdc0.pdf > > thanks bud! What I gathered from the report is that basically kids are as cheap as I was 
TheAliMan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Engineering work isn’t that tough depending on > what you’re doing; I’ve seen a lot of very bright > people in finance and economics. The big > difference is that in school, the finance kids had > more time to party while the engineers worked > harder (and then partied harder when they had the > chance). That said, I think engineering in any > concentration is one of the best undergraduate > degrees anyone can take. You can sure as hell go > from engineering to finance, but it’s probably > tougher the other way around. What do you guys > think? if i could do it again, i’d have done engineering instead of finance. it’s kind of hard to go from finance into petroleum engineering, clean technology, geology, etc. without doing a bs again. so i’ve made up my mind to go as far as i can in finance and stay ahead of at least a portion of the herd (got the CFA and hoping to attend a top finance MBA program next fall).
Whatever, there are incompetent people everywhere. An engineer over 40 either goes into finance, consulting, general management or they take them out back and shoot them. I personally know a few MDs who are working as healthcare analysts. I think that given a certain intelligence level (one that is attainable by most successful professionals) a person can pass most learn enough to graduate from any of these programs, but really understanding the material and being able to excel in that field is another matter.
eureka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Whatever, there are incompetent people everywhere. > An engineer over 40 either goes into finance, > consulting, general management or they take them > out back and shoot them. > > I personally know a few MDs who are working as > healthcare analysts. I think that given a certain > intelligence level (one that is attainable by most > successful professionals) a person can pass most > learn enough to graduate from any of these > programs, but really understanding the material > and being able to excel in that field is another > matter. In my experience, I’ve encountered there are a lot of highly intelligent engineers and geologists that don’t go the general management role; rather these people stay in research and special projects. They’re brilliant (albeit introverted) and happy where they are. They probably don’t get paid as well as consultants, bankers, or general managers but they form the backbone of many companies.
Many of my engineers friends are going to business school/CFA to get a chance to make a switch into finance. Finance is where average joe has a chance to made it big. Many people are talking about the bonus declared by Goldman Sachs to its employees. Thing like this attract people from different fields to switch into finance.
TheAliMan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > eureka Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Whatever, there are incompetent people > everywhere. > > An engineer over 40 either goes into finance, > > consulting, general management or they take > them > > out back and shoot them. > > > > I personally know a few MDs who are working as > > healthcare analysts. I think that given a > certain > > intelligence level (one that is attainable by > most > > successful professionals) a person can pass > most > > learn enough to graduate from any of these > > programs, but really understanding the material > > and being able to excel in that field is > another > > matter. > > In my experience, I’ve encountered there are a lot > of highly intelligent engineers and geologists > that don’t go the general management role; rather > these people stay in research and special > projects. They’re brilliant (albeit introverted) > and happy where they are. They probably don’t get > paid as well as consultants, bankers, or general > managers but they form the backbone of many > companies. I’d rather be the adrenal glands of the company. In all seriousness, I was kind of kidding around when talking about engineers. Also, I was more referring to your average engineer, not the rocket surgeons.
there is so much orthodox thinking in traditional finance that it will be hard to get a job. You will have a better shot in non-traditional finance where results make more of a difference than appearance.
Almost all new IB Associates at banks, large and small, joining after MBA are over 30 or very close to it… 27 at the youngest. Given attrition, much younger analyst-promotes can be scarce. But agreed if you are late 30s and look late 30s, it would be more difficult, but typically you wouldn’t be graduating from a top MBA program in your late 30s, and if you are, you probably aren’t targeting banking.
Buckhead Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > there is so much orthodox thinking in traditional > finance that it will be hard to get a job. You > will have a better shot in non-traditional finance > where results make more of a difference than > appearance. Agree 100%. And if it must be finance, than something less structured than IB. Asset management maybe
Yes, the people who are “out there” in finance are very, very smart. I dare say that getting into a Top 10 Finance PhD these days is harder than getting into most medical schools. However, the average med or engineering student works harder (what’s wrong with that?) than the average person doing a BBA or MBA. And let’s face it, no matter how hard they try, a lot of people just can’t make it through engineering programs. And with the mega sized banks now, everything is highly structured for hundreds and thousands of people doing their tasks, eg my “commodity” metaphor above. With such an environment, it’s not hard to have a (bright) 25 year old doing many of the the tasks. For example, a lot of this work, such as initial financial analysis, has been sent offshore.
KTE making a comeback - - where have you been?
KTE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, the people who are “out there” in finance are > very, very smart. I dare say that getting into a > Top 10 Finance PhD these days is harder than > getting into most medical schools. That is the understatement of the year. Top 10 PhD Finance is so hard to get into. A lot of those guys have PhDs and grad degrees in Physics. The bare minimum is perfect quant GRE or GMAT and a lot of upper level math.
Out of curiosity, what are the “Top 10 Finance PhD” programs. I have friends doing PhDs in applied econ and finance at some pretty prestigious schools, so I am wondering how they measure up.
I think I should restate my earlier position: People working in finance, regardless of their level of intelligence, are not as intellectually honest as people working in fields such as medicine and engineering. The reason is that investment and finance is largely about selling and marketing. 95% of the profession is the same money exchanging hands over and over again. Doctors and engineers have real jobs that actually do create value.
Folks doing PhDs in finance at the top 10 programs are hardly representative of the financial industry generally either. I’m sure they are quite a bit smarter on average than folks at the top 10 MBA programs for example.
KarenC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > In my younger misguided days I applied to some > > banking positions at the age of 24 and was told > I > > was too old to start as an analyst and didn’t > have > > the experience to be an associate. Consider > that > > most VPs will be in their late 20s early 30s, > you > > will have someone young enough to be your son > > bossing you around. > > > Are you serious? at 24 you were too old?? 
I was told almost the exact same thing, but at the age of 25
KarenC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > In my younger misguided days I applied to some > > banking positions at the age of 24 and was told > I > > was too old to start as an analyst and didn’t > have > > the experience to be an associate. Consider > that > > most VPs will be in their late 20s early 30s, > you > > will have someone young enough to be your son > > bossing you around. > > > Are you serious? at 24 you were too old?? Still young enough for Irish lasses.
That’s halarious. Exactly how it went with me. Older but with contacts that used to work in IB in NYC years ago still has lots of senior contacts there. He says I’ll get you in but you’ll have to work long hours live in a crappy apartment with your family which you will never see and have a boss ten years younger than you and work with people half you age. I had to pass.
Wow I better get moving…I only have one year left is 24 is too old
Not too old for me…btw what’s up with all these faces these days? Talk to me, what’s going on over there?