Hello Do you think having both will allow me to move from academia into finance world? I am currently a lecturer in economics and finance. Thanks.
Where do you teach? What is your PhD in? Where is your PhD from? What was your dissertation over?
I don’t know that you would even need the charter. Several of my finance professors in grad. school were also very highly compensated consultants to Wall Street.
higgmond Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t know that you would even need the charter. > Several of my finance professors in grad. school > were also very highly compensated consultants to > Wall Street. +1, but I guess this can be different if there are no financial jobs. I know for a fact Ph.D’s can make quite a bit of money in finance world. CFA is a waste of time IMO, but in my school dean wanted everybody in finance department to get CFA, not sure why (prolly marketing purposes of business school and finance department). As a Ph.D you have proven track of ability to learn, so company can train you in whatever subject matter they need you for. Start looking, as many first are recovering and/or looking to take advantage of today’s state of economy.
CFA=NOLIFE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > higgmond Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I don’t know that you would even need the > charter. > > Several of my finance professors in grad. > school > > were also very highly compensated consultants > to > > Wall Street. > > > +1, but I guess this can be different if there are > no financial jobs. I know for a fact Ph.D’s can > make quite a bit of money in finance world. CFA is > a waste of time IMO, but in my school dean wanted > everybody in finance department to get CFA, not > sure why (prolly marketing purposes of business > school and finance department). As a Ph.D you > have proven track of ability to learn, so company > can train you in whatever subject matter they need > you for. Start looking, as many first are > recovering and/or looking to take advantage of > today’s state of economy. yup CFA is definitely a waste of time
Not if his PhD is in management or marketing, those things are about as easy to get as a BA in Art history. However, for the purposes of this post lets assume your PhD is in either Finc or Econ. Then we come to issues like which one, a Finc is much more preferred in industry (in academia too if you go by starting salaries, which to me is the ultimate measuring stick). Also, what department are you currently a part of Econ or Finc? This is crucial because if you say you’re lecturing finance classes and you mean something like financial economics then you’re really in the Econ department which more than likely mean you are in the Liberal Arts College and not the Business School; this is a negative for going into industry. Also, where you got your PhD from is a huge factor, if you’re coming from Chicago with a PhD in Econ or Finc it doesn’t really matter your road is paved, however if your PhD is from a Tier 3 school or lower the going gets much more difficult. My guess is the OP is a relatively fresh graduate who took a lecturing post because the schools had cut their budgets meaning many of the assistant professorships that he was in the running for suddenly went away. The role of lecturer is not an enviable one at any school in my experience, particularly for someone holding a PhD as its a job that can in most cases be done by a grad student or someone holding a Masters in the subject matter. Give us more details OP and we can hopefully advise. Good luck to you!
Hello Many thanks for all your responses. I graduated with a Ph.D. Economics from a top-10 university in the U.K. Although it can’t be compared to Chicago or Harvard, it is among one of the best. (Last year it ranked 6.) Actually, I planned to work in the finance industry right after I got a master degree, but was offered a scholarship for a Ph.D. and a research assistant position, so couldn’t resist! I currently teach at a small middle-rank university. My research area involves advance econometric methods, macroeconomics, especially monetary policy. I am fairly versatile as I spent about two years working as an FX trader (swap) right after I got my first degree. I can teach a wide range of subject, including macroeconomics, money and banking, time-series and cross-section econometrics, and financial market trading and derivatives. Although I live and work in the U.K., I am a Thai citizen and planning to return to Thailand for a job in the near future. I only took the CFA exam because I was told that it would open many doors for me in the future. I took Level 2 in June and am waiting for the result. Thanks again for all your comments. Everyone seems so nice around here!
Your quantitative background looks good. And while you graduated from a top 6 school in the UK (which in my opinion is absolutely great) will get you little respect at most Wall Street firms, hedge funds and PE firms; these company’s will typically only recognize an LBS PhD as equivalent to a top 10 US PhD, while the more enlightened ones might also consider Oxford and Cambridge. Also, the fact that you are an Econ and not Finc PhD may pose problems in the states. Here is my 2bps now that we know a bit more about you. Since you are in the UK where your graduating institution is likely to be more recognized than elsewhere in the world. Try to get a job in the financial district in London (and yes I know this won’t be easy but there should be some options given your education level). As for the CFA since you already started you might as well finish it, especially if you pass L2 this go around. If you wanted to go industry having a PhD two-three years ago was a much bigger asset (unfortunately) than it is today, but like I say you possess a fairly rare skill set which many in London will still be looking for even in these times (can’t comment on Thai market, but I would try getting experience in London or NY before going back that way you can land a much better/higher position upon your return). PS advanced econometrics ha? so like nonparametrics and kernel density estimation? god that seems like a lifetime ago!!
yeah… wait until aug 18, then watch the “nice” traits dissappear form sum folks… : )
Those look like the letters on Supernerds cape.
CFA in addition to the Econ Phd would certainly be helpful. The CFA program focuses on portfolio management and investment analysis. Coming from an Econ background too, I can tell you that the CFA program is a great tool for helping connect the dots with your Econ Phd and apply that econ knowledge in new ways concerning investments. Both are unique and difficult in their own ways. The econ on the CFA exams will seem very easy for you, but don’t underestimate it as it is very broad and still a good idea to brush up on old concepts you haven’t used in a while. But in terms of the econ material, no graph contruction or detailed calculus are needed in the CFA program, just lots and lots of concepts. Back in school, I knew someone who was finishing up their Econ Phd and is now cleaning up working in consulting…it seems that Econ Phds are very tough to come by for companies looking to hire for non-teaching investment related jobs.
thanaset Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks again for all your comments. Everyone > seems so nice around here! go to thailand and open a spa
If you started CFA might as well finish it, the difficulty and the amount of material should be a joke to you. Also US Ph.D’s are not that great compared to some in Europe. I know for a fact (as my grandfather is a dean at a university in Russia) that getting Ph.D in Russia is significantly harder than in US, don’t remember if Europe is the same. Before I get flamed with this comment, I didn’t say Ph.D is more useful to make money in Russia (or really anywhere). Also I would strongly disagree with adavydov7. Many investment management firms and banks hire Ph.D in math, physics, astronomy etc. None of those are even close to finance. And I’m sure they make good money. But even that is not the point, you can make better money with MBA, but you can also make money with no degree at all. I’m sure all those Ph.D make less than their boss who might have an MBA. Theory is not always practical, but practical is what makes money.
Thanks, guys, for your inputs. When I revised for last June level 2 exam, I was actually surprised that there were still so many new things to learn. What’s fun about doing this CFA is that it’s practical. I actually incorporated some of the CFA material into my teaching, making things more interesting for students. Anyway, I can’t wait to know my exam result! I hope to talk to you guys again soon in Level III forum!
@CFA=NOLIFE: well you are going to get flamed my friend, but not for the reason that you thought; you will be flamed for your lack of knowledge about what a PhD entails both here and in Russia (bad luck for you I guess, I am Russian and my parents both have PhDs from Russia, and my dad also has a Dr. Sc. in his field you can google it if you want:). Let’s first address what you say about PhDs in general before touching on your disagreement with what I have said: -“US Ph.D’s are not that great compared to some in Europe.” Wrong it depends on what subject area you are talking about if its Finc or Econ US PhD are by far and away the best in the world only a few international schools (ex. LBS) can compete in terms of A publications and faculty at top ten universities. Also, the US PhD programs are much more daunting in these disciplines than in other countries (I know because I had a European PhD student visit me in my finance PhD program and we had a chance to compare; I can elaborate upon request). Math, physics and chemistry PhDs are probably better pursued elsewhere although the top US institution in all of these disciplines are certainly competitive internationally (think MIT in math!), the difference is in our institutions that aren’t top 10 in these fields, here the students are often crap compared to international student in their respective countries non top 10 schools. Getting a PhD in Russia USED to be hard and even then you could always pay someone to write your dissertation for you (this happened, I know it for a fact!). Now I don’t know why anyone would even want to get a PhD in Russia all the smart people have either left (ex. my parents) or gone into business (ex. my siblings). The intellectual/academic apparatus of the USSR is in shambles, and it is very sad to see this as it was probably the only positive to have come out of living under a communist regime for 3/4 of a century! -“Also I would strongly disagree with adavydov7. Many investment management firms and banks hire Ph.D in math, physics, astronomy etc” I am sorry I don’t see what you are disagreeing with me on. The only statements I have made thus far are that Finc PhDs are preferred to Econ PhDs in industry, which they are (easily verifiable), just like in most schools in the US you will see much lower admissions into Finc PhD depts then into econ depts, you will see better, more well rounded, more fluent (in Enlgish), and more personable students applying to Finc PhD programs, all this is because starting salaries for tenure track finance PhDs is about 2.5-3x higher than for equivalent positions with Econ PhDs (also fairly easily verifiable). I never said investment firms don’t hire math and physics PhDs clearly they do for the same reason they hire econ and finc PhD, because all have an excellent grasp of mathematical concepts and are able to think and reason at an extremely high level. However, if you asked or surveyed firms you would find a disproportionate number and preference for Finc PhD over econ PhDs and for physics phds over math phds, this is due to that fact that the former discipline in each set deals more with practical issues and “loose” math than the latter in each set (although econ math is still fairly loose!). Astronomy is more of a stretch but I am sure you can find a few but they will likely be in a different role than the finc/econ/physics/math PhDs. So again what did you disagree with me on?
oh snap
Agree with adavydov. US PhD programs in Finance/Economics are much stronger than throughout the world…of course, this is because the smartest international academics come to teach in the US. 
In Russia, it is still very much about money and buying your way in to your position. I would say even more now during and post-Putin regime.
Why not go back and be a trader again and trade something else like ForEX, Futures or something you like. You obviously are very smart. I have a lot of respect for brainy people with ambition. Don’t make this into an expectation about everybody being nice or you will be very disappointed, very soon. I 'bout spit out my water when I read that. But some people are very nice, just not everybody. Some people enjoy running around causing trouble and upsetting others for fun just for the chaos. Best of luck! ------------------------------------------------------- > thanaset Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > Thanks again for all your comments. Everyone > > seems so nice around here! > > >
@ adavydov7, I guess I was mentioning only based on the the requirement to even get into Ph.D. Correct me if i’m wrong, but the way it works in Russia is that you have to do two dissertations. One is to basically show that you can can do it, and another, “real” dissertation. Many in Russia will stop after the first one, as it’s comparable to a regular Ph.D in the majority of the world. And then how do you even compare Ph.D’s across the world in terms of real application? Black, Scholes and Merton had “best” Ph.D and Nobel Prizes, and couldn’t last more than 4 years in the hedge fund industry. I was disagreeing with compensation as the measuring stick. In academia you might make more as fin prof. vs. econ, but in the real world it’s all irrelevant. You can make more with MBA then either Ph.D, all depends what you do and where in the industry (even we just limit to the financial sector).
The thing is it is very easy to pay someone to write both of those dissertations and all you have to do is defend. Also, once you are in the PhD program the actual process in Russia and most of Europe involves a lot of hand holding from your advisor. Typically, you are handed projects that your advisor is working on and you help out and when you get results that are publication worthy your name is usually included, this is very easy compared to the alternative that you see in most econ and finc phd programs in the US. In these programs coming up with a research proposal is one of the requirements for completing your PhD (ex. in my program you had to come with an initial proposal and some basic data and statistics and present in what was callled the “oral” exam to the whole department, after which they either approved it or sent you back to work for the summer and come up with a new one if the second one wasn’t approved you were kicked out of the program). Also, in Russia once you’re in you’re in, in most US schools at the end of the first year of a PhD program you have a cumulative exam over all of your course work (for me this was a 3 section exam: Theoretical Asset Pricing, Corporate Finance Theory (much harder than asset pricing), and Micro and Macro) that makes all 3 levels of the CFA look like the GED (again I can elaborate on the questions if you wish)! At some schools, like Chicago this first year exam is known to claim about 50-67% of the first year class! So basically your lively hood and place in a US PhD is at stake your first two years and on top of it you get very little help from advisors in terms of coming up with a decent research topic (and trust me this is the hardest part of the process by far, because you are still so green and have no idea what is and isn’t a worthy topic and what or won’t be considered by an A journal), and while they do help once you get started with things like analysis and programming these things are “mechanical” for most PhDs and students so they are not where help is needed as badly. As for B and S, they did blow up LTCM but I don’t think you can ever deny that they are very smart people, but very smart doesn’t equate to being able to control the market or foresee every contingency. lol academia world isn’t the real world? Also I didn’t say anything about finc phd v. econ phd comp in the industry, all I said is they are more desired for the reasons I listed (although often times this will result in a nominally higher salary etc.). As for MBAs making more than PhDs yea of course it happens, and there are also people with no undergrad degree making more than both (ex. Gates). This is in fact the whole reason that academics abandon their ivory towers its the fact that industry offers them potentially unlimited earning potential whereas in academia their salaries are fairly well defined and very rigidly structured over the term of their careers (but at least the job security is good!). In fact this is why you see so many physics and math phds leave for the industry (not hard when full professors in both disciplines make less than 100k per year at top notch schools).