I am curious if anyone here works in TAS/M&A (Financial Due Diligence) with Big 4 and what your experience has been like? I have spoken with someone at E&Y and Deloitte, but would like to have more feedback as to the environment, work lifestyle, and exit opportunities… Thoughts?
Anyone?
what level are u getting in? Analyst/Assoc?
Lets say Associate
I would come in as Senior (those are the titles they use at PwC, E&Y, and Deloitte M&A at least). I think it would be a S3 (not sure if they all do it that way) but, wouldnt be manager… I have spoken with people at the firms I noted above that I used to work with at Deloitte, but am always looking for more opinions.
No, would be senior. Obviously nothing is certain, but from the people I spoke with that would be the most likely.
Ok Pac give us the low down, This is something I have also thought about. Not really sure if it would be a good move for me since I am already at a large shop and if I move I would probably prefer to go into something small which isnt B4
Mr Good Guy - what type of work are you in right now? Is it doing pure Financial due Diligence or all across TAS services (for example, some companies have you work on post deal integration, etc)? I am looking at purely the Transaction Support pieces (DD). just curious.
Underwrite and Manage Corporate Debt. Pretty strong modeling background and lots of experience dealing with senior management and Equity investors i.e. Private Equity and Venture Capital.
So are you looking to move? Typically at the smaller firms (at least so far the ones I have interviewed with and/or looked at) being in TAS will mean a large variety of work (DD, process work, possible restructuring depending on firm, capital markets, etc). I am in corp finance (regional director of Latin America) after moving out of Audit, but want to get into M&A on the Transaction Support side. I like that it is focused purely on the DD side as opposed to say FTI where the Corp Fin does a lot of jobs. Obviously, the big 4 TAS has a lot of ex-audit and prefer pretty heavy accounting knowledge, so me leaving relatively early may look bad (2.5 years)…but I guess that is my job to sell why it isnt in interviews. Still hoping someone in those service lines might chime in. So far I hear it is similar to Audit from a culture stand-point. Overall hours are about the same, but spread out over a much different pattern. Travel is short term and similar pattern to hours. Money is probably low for the hours, but the raises are good and exit opportunities pretty solid (at least in a decent market). That is what I have gather from talking with 4-5 different people at 3 of the Big 4 (and at all different levels).
Hmm TAS was just one option. I think I might be a little junior to you (Not a Director) more associate level. My background is pretty strong, good undergrad/GPA. Current job provided formal credit training. Company is very respected across the industry. I guess I really have to decide if I want to move on, and next make sure I leverage the company I am currently at to my benefit.
Well, my title is more BS than anything. I just got lucky to get a promotion and be in the right place at the right time (I only have just under 4 years experience). Small company too (600M Rev) from a revenue standpoint hopefully going public in early 2009 (already public in Norway). I expected to be stuck in my low financial analyst role (no one reporting to me, slow $$$ growth, crap work) and then just recently (as I was starting to interview elsewhere) I was suggested for this job by the region head…so now I can wait a little longer and not have to leave just to leave. If you ever start looking into more the consulting/TAS route let me know if you want I can probably at least give you some ideas (from all my looking now, plus a lot of people I knew from Audit ended up going that route).
I was recently interviewing for a position in a TAS department at E&Y. Is working working for the Corp. Finance department in a Big 4 really just a lot of accounting work? I thought TAS departments focused more on M&A of smaller firms, similar to an investment banker but at a smaller scale, or am I wrong? I’m not an auditor or accountant, I studied Economics. However, I hear the exit opportunities are great if you stay for a couple of years, even if it’s just to leverage the experience for a MBA. From what I’ve gathered from talking to a few people already working in a Big 4, most of the firms will exploit you in terms of hours, except for maybe E&Y which has the “People First” approach. The salary is decent and bonuses are pretty good, but nothing compared to top investment banks. Most of the firms always have a ton of work, so it’s generally a very hectic environment. For the most part the work is challenging and interesting and you will learn a ton. Most firms have in-house training and some will even help you specialize in an industry (PWC usually does that). Everyone I know is not in Audit and they are very happy with their job despite the long hours once in a while.
Red- Here are my thoughts. TAS can mean a lot of things depending on the firm. TAS can include pre-deal financial due diligence as well as post deal integration. At Deloitte it isnt even TAS but just M&A Advisory. So when you say Corp Fin it can include all of the functions (process work, temporary CFO/controller, etc, due diligence, capital markets, etc)…it depends on how the firm is structured and which part you are in. I believe Corp Fin at Deloitte is a separate function from M&A Advisory and only in a few cities (I think it may deal more with lining up financing, temp execs, and integration work). Most of the people in the Big 4 Due Diligence Teams (I will call them that so there is no confusion) are ex-auditors and have a CPA. I was a little surprised as how few CFA or even CFA candidates I saw. I asked my friends at E&Y why this is and it is essentially because of the lack of training in accounting. They dont take the time to teach it to you, so they expect you to be able to know it. In more complicated cases it can require specific technical knowledge (E&Y Dallas is currently only hiring a VERY specific knowledge). If you get to the other areas of TAS it can include a lot more variety of background on average (again, there are others in DD, but the vast majority are ex-audit/CPA…in fact, E&Y requires CPA to make manager even in TAS-TS). The pay I was told for Miami was a 3 year guy came in at 75K and got I think 20-25% raise. Not sure on bonus. Raises this year may be lower in the 12-18% range, if that. Hours can be bad, but everyone I talked to says not worse than audit. So expect some 90-100 in the very bad cases and then the busy weeks will be 70-75. But the down weeks are better, from the people I spoke with. I wouldnt buy that “people first” approach…they all typically end up with the bad hours (PwC might be the worst but usually pay more).
I worked for PwC in audit for a few years and 65 hour weeks and 65% travel sucked. Anyone who has done audit travel knows it is not the same as “business travel,” sitting in a small room with 8 other people at a conference table covered with so much crap that you can’t see the other side for 12 hours a day doing work that almost no one will ever look at and/or care about was not my idea of a good time. But the M&A guys, while they got paid more worked longer hours and traveled more that I ever did. At the big 4 unless you are a sr. mgr or higher you a just a number and they will work you to death. on the other hand the trainings were always a blast.
I know a couple of people in different countries working for the Corporate Finance department at PWC and they tell me that there are several people in their department pursuing the CFA charter. From what they tell me it’s common to see CFA charter holders in the corporate finance departments of some Big 4. I interviewed for a Corp. Finance at PWC recently and they told me that PWC focuses on less acounting and more on M&A support (not so much due diligence). Aside from the usual financial models and valuations they were telling me that the position would include analyzing the entire company to find ways to add value (e.g. competitive analysis, SWOT, etc). Since the job was less acounting-based, it seemed like a great place to get experience and it seems like it would satisfy the CFA work experience requirements. Is this common at other Big 4 or consistent with what you’ve heard of PWC?
"I interviewed for a Corp. Finance at PWC recently and they told me that PWC focuses on less acounting and more on M&A support (not so much due diligence). " That sounds similar…but again, that is for Corp FIN, not TAS/M&A Advisory, which is pre-deal DD and Post Deal Integration, etc. Many more parts I am sure, but that is the two pieces I can think of. Corp fin groups can be very good experience. Some can be long-term travel (if you are serving as an intermin exec). I know Deloitte’s Corp Fin group does have some people further removed from accounting, but it is a pretty small group overall. I would think it is a very good fit for someone looking a little closer to Business Consulting type work, as opposed to the M&A DD.
It is a technical process and includes investigation or audit of investment to confirm all materials facts in regards to the sale. It is through reviewing all financial records plus anything else deemed material to the sale. In specific language due diligence refers to the care a reasonable person should take before entering into an agreement or a transaction with another party.
An exit strategy is a professional move, and you’ll never know the answers to the questions. I can speak for Deloitte, which has only recently hired *any* seniors into the TS group, so recent departures with any tenure in the group have been senior managers, with a manager or two thrown in.