As I attempted for my first Level 1 exam, I believe that I can now start my focus on careers towards the investment industry. But the sad fact is I am currently belonging to some other industry with almost 7-8 years of experience in IT industry. I wanted to break into investment industry. I am ready to forego certain percentage of my present income. As I now know the tricks to impress HR personnel in any industry I don’t think it is ethical to show less or incorrect experience on resume . Whether you have been on my place before or not, Can you advice me on the following;
Is it possible to create a fresh grad resume but not showing your IT experience ? If not can you throw some light on how do I persuade the potential employer that I want to break into the industry
What is the “investment industry”? The biggest “trick” you can play is to convince someone you’re passionate about investing. Absent that, it will be extremely hard to break into the industry.
I think its lucrative and at least survival (if I am not wrong) compared to my IT where most of the employers always look for young and cheap resource (with no bonus and unpaid overtimes) and if they think that they are spending too much on emplpoyees they start outsourcing and downsize the local team . I have seen it happening with my friends, myself and the worse nightmare (a 60 year old guy who was let go just because his skills weren’t compatible with a 23 year fresh graduate). Thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. It could happen with anyone
Leaving out some experience isn’t going to really work. Even if you get an interview, you are going to have to fill out your real age on the application and they are going to wonder what you’ve been doing.
To be honest unless you know someone on the inside already, it probably isn’t going to happen.
I’ll be straight up with you. This is going to sound harsh. And I’m not normally harsh on here but this case is pretty clear to me from your comments:
If you’re not good enough to crack a good living in IT in Canada, you’re certainly not even close to cracking the “investment industry” in any substantial role. It’s about a zillion times easier to make a mint in IT than in Finance in this country. That’s a fact. If you’re struggling now, you probably don’t have the soft skills required to make a go in the “investment industry.” Sorry bud.
It takes several things to make it in any industry: good attitude, common sense, diligence and luck.
From what you wrote, i think you probably have a good attitude? As for common sense and diligence, you just have to work really really hard learning the basics of finance, read up on the news and magazines, do some investing by yourself and get familiar with the industry to start.
Obviously in every industry there is a bit of luck involve in getting the right job, but i think for someone as inexperienced as you, it’s probably best to go to as many networking events as possible and see what kind of jobs are out there and what are “reasonable” for you.
Clearly, not every job in finance pays millions and millions in bonuses, that’s not to say you can’t make it there one day. But you need to start from the bottom like everyone else (the 23 year old fresh grads).
@geo Here is the how Tech industry plays with employment in North America. Assuming you know little bit about the IT industry. Previously for a project there used to be a developer, a QA, a BA and PM. There used to role for 4 people for a small project.
Since 2010 the industry is now shifting to need around 2.5 people to fill the same roles. A Developer needs to have QA and BA, and a PM needs to all of these skills atleast 75% skillsets of each of the roles.
A Developer, QA and BA outsourced to country like India will cost to employer USD 1000 per month + contracting company take 25%. These are employees who work 70+ hours each. Outsourcing an entire project costs less then 30% of North American cost. I have worked with these guys, Here you will come across someone got laid off stories everyday. About every big fish whether its IBM or Microsoft they just want to cut cost indirectly they can’t afford N.American employees. The other small fish or what we call the startup employees, comprises mostly junior to mid exp grads just because they are 40% cheaper then a 10 years exp guy. If anyone is reading this and belongs to this industry I am damn sure that I am correct. These same companies say on their careers page that they “have beer in their taps” and other crazy stuff.
I went through all of these and realised that this industry is stunted to specific age group only who can work overtimes (unpaid) and 1% raises every year and “bonus” is way way far. You only grow if you change jobs.
I don’t have problem in learning but I wish I could be wrong but these N.American IT employees will somewhere get extinct (except California) as new economies come up and fight for cost. Geo, I wish you are correct and I am wrong
@ Nana: I am ready to work hard. Working to release a software at 4 am was the most learning experience I had in my life and averaging work hours around 14-18 hours a day when I was in my early 20s. I don’t think investment industry would want me to wake up at 3 am and work when I grow to my early 40s. I am not expecting to get millions but a job where there is dignity for people of all ages and their hard work is recognised. I know it will be tough but if I go into industry today, I believe I will be much better 5 years down the lines compared to my IT colleagues.
PerfectCritic: I strongy encourage you to take a broader look using your existing skillset. You might have to switch cities or look at a different niche in the IT space. My wife is an IT professional and has 20-30 times as many inquiries as I do from recruiters. She’s called at least once or twice a week, whereas I get maybe 2 or 3 inquiries a year. She’s called weekly for $200-300/hr projects, a pay range I couldn’t come close to hitting myself. Due to our family situation she prefers to work part-time and not on contract, but she still makes as much as I do. The job markets aren’t even remotely comparable. She has the choice of a handful of opportunties at any time… I would be out of work for a few months at least if I was to lose my job and I have a fairly strong network and nearly a decade of experience.
You do point out some valid trends with outsourcing and less project staff, but these trends exist in finance too. Lots of data work is outsourced and technology has seriously reduced headcount in many firms.
At the end of the day, what do you enjoy more? If you really enjoy finance, then do finance. I’m not telling you to not do what you want to do. I’m just suggesting you’re moving to a much weaker industry if that’s indeed what you want to do. Jobs are very hard to come by in finance in Canada without an existing network. If you really want this move, then go get an MBA from a strong US school or from Ivey, Rotman or Queens (if you want to stay in Canada). You need a network more than you need the CFA program.
I don’t mean to be negative but it is what it is. I understand your frustration with the IT industry, but finance isn’t any better. I think it’s worse.
And your comment about unpaid overtime… I don’t know what segment of the “investment industry” you’re looking at, but lots of entry level positions aren’t much more than minimum wage when you factor in unpaid overtime.
What’s your undergrad background anyway? Computer science?
Sorry man…was away for couple of days. My background is Under Grad in Commerce and Post Grad in IT.
From analyzing your comment I believe I am in location risk. But I live in small city of Vancouver where tourism, natural resource and auto industry are major contributor to state’s economy. I can also see why according to you Finance careers are weak in Canada.
I also bumped into a CFP recently and he said weird things about CFA and pitched about CFP instead (just because of limited jobs based on where we are right now). The reason for me to dive into CFA was to avoid MBA and thought CFA would be a great hedge against MBA. But I enjoyed learning the CFA curiculum. I found it to be very educational & practical.
Talking about enjoyment in finance I haven’t really dived into finance. So I don’t know about the job stress / risk / growth in finance industry. But IT is very spoiling and at times extremely stressful. Its a very good industry for “short term” or max 10 years because after that the growth curve flattens esp for permanent jobs.
I am not frustrated with the industry because I believe it is a primary industry (according to me) and it is very dynamic
But thanks for your comments. I will consider your experiences with the finance industry.
If someone else wants to pitch in then feel free to share your experience here.
My understanding of the local market in Vancouver is that CFP may be more valuable there. There are not that many institutional asset managers based in Vancouver, and these are the places that most value the CFA. On the other hand, there are a lot of wealthy (primarily Asian of some flavor) expat families based in Vancouver and they need wealth management and financial planning services, which are more logicially lined up with CFP. If you get a classic CFA job, the ultimate upside may be higher, but a good CFP job can offer a comfortable compensation with decent work/life balance after one has built up a decent book of business (which of course is the tricky part).
We CFA types like to poo-hoo the CFP because the exams don’t seem as challenging as the CFA, but they also cover things like tax, estate, and insurance planning, which are not really talked about much in the CFA curriculum, yet which are extremely useful when doing financial planning for individuals and families. The CFA goes into more depth on how to build a portfolio, valuation, the debate about whether it is possible to outperform a passive index and how one goes about measuring that. For most of us, that’s the fun part of investing, but for the kind of jobs you’re likely to find in the Vancouver region, it’s probably less valuable than knowing how to build a sensible portfolio of index funds, avoid taxes and transfer wealth to your kids effectively.
So unless you are looking to move to another city where asset management is more central, the CFP may not be a bad route to go.
In wealth management, knowing someone in the business is pretty crucial to breaking in. Managing someone else’s money is a bit like being a heart surgeon. Most people don’t comparison shop - rather, they either ask for references from peers they trust, or they go with whoever is offered from a name-brand network that you have to break in to.
Working hard is the minimum requirement in the industry, i mean, i don’t know anyone in finance who is NOT willing to work hard and peopl;e who have completed the CFA program certainly worked extremely hard to get them.
I think your skills and focus can channel yourself into finance, whether or not your next move is everything you expect it to be, that’s another question.
There are so many finance jobs in IT, and many research firms specialize in valuing tech companies, and if you build up an expertise and network in this industry, it can be your edge.
Tens of thousands of guys like you unfortunately. Doesn’t help that you’re in vancouver as well. I think if you wanted to, getting into financial services wouldn’t be too hard in BC. Especially if you speak another language with a large community and have good networks and soft skills. Gathering money and peddling financial products can be financially rewarding to the right salesperson, but you probably won’t like what you do. Around here it wouldn’t actually be considered ‘finance’. I think at this point it’s pretty tough to break into the institutional stuff since you’ve already done a masters.
Geo, I think many people tend to think IT is one job. IT is very diverse like finance is. IT can pay big bucks if you are doing SAP, big data (whatever this means) or some very specialised and well sought job. But if you are admin sys or basic programmer or web developer with no speciality, it will be hard for you. I know you will say that it is his fault for not choosing a lucrative sector but sometimes it is just hard to move (in Europe people tend to not give a chance as easily because sacking an employee is hard) or you are just unlucky (graduated in IT in 2001 for example). One a side note, if you are an exceptional developer with knowledge of high frequency trading, you can commend salaries in multiples of hundreds of thousand British pounds for example. In general, in IT, there has been a shift from jobs very technical like telecoms/network towards more maths focused specialty, AI, Big Data, computational programming.
PerfectCritic, one thing I noticed is that you mention breaking into finance/investment industry. I have met several people who want to break into finance but they did not research properly what they mean by finance. It is akin to someone saying I learned a bit of IT and now I want to break into IT ? Does it make any sense to not at least specify if you are interested in financial equity research, trading, risk management, pension funds, banks, … ? I know it is hard to research a new field, but if I interview someone who tells me he wants to break into finance and he is not 23 or younger, I will systematically give a bad feedback because the person did not properly research what he wants to do.
for example if you wanted to be a trader, you need to read, do some research about what traders do and try to invest some money on your own. If you wanted to be an equity research analyst, you need to read some research and know what equity are being looked at by the analysts at the moment … In any case, if you are not a fresh grad, you should try to meet people and network, this will be your best chance at getting a job and advice.
i have met several people and interviewed many people. The successful ones are always driven and know exactly what and why they want to do something or at least they look like they do, therefore my advice would be to start there and looking at what you want to do in the investment industry and why you think you would be the ‘best’ at it.
I feel like we get one new IT guy who wants to “break into finance” every day here.
OP, with your experience you would be a good fit for a back-office operational role. Something with Advent or something like that. Maybe you could transition into front office from there.
Tough to go right to front-office analysis straight from IT. Enough kids trying to do that already out of undergrad to fill the ranks.
I understand very well how segmented the IT sector is. But this guy stands 100x better chance moving within IT to a more lucrative role/specialty than making a huge jump into some high flying finance job where he can bathe in dollar bills.
If he had the soft skills to succeed in the front office he’d be successful in IT, or at least has the potential to be successful with much less trouble. I work with IB and ER nearly everyday. They are nothing like my IT department. It’s a different mindset completely. They are fundamentally different people. Maybe he’s the 1 in 10,000 that’s different, but I see twenty of these guys post every month claiming to be the guy that’s different. I’m just being realistic.
You’re right though, he’s not very specific. Maybe he’s looking more at a back office role in which is more realistic, though still not as easy as moving within IT to something more lucrative.
I agree with Geo and BlueTrin, the problem is with IT there is always volatile curves in demand and supply. Today we are dying to hire Mobile App Developers and tomorrow who knows Google Glass or Amazon might come up with those mini gadgets and which will eventually shift the demand for labours needing to support those skills and will eventually lay off the ones who aren’t needed. Pay is good to attract talent but in smaller cities like Vancouver with only 2m population it doesn’t grow because there is not enough room for advancement.
With my entire experience in IT I have seen that this industry has very limit on employee age demographic (except Government) . Also this industry has a small duration of business cycle. So if I have to explore deep dive into IT SAP, Oracle, AI are the companies (Which will again require changing the location)
I hope to get into Trading or equity research or may be in the designing of trading programs. But I hope to advance in the career.