Turning 30, career is in shambles. Help me.

Water Cooler Careers
#1

I turn 30 next week. I desperately need some advice.

Dream job: Fund manager at mutual or hedge fund.

Credentials: L3 candidate, JD top 20 school, BA Econ top 10 state school. Horrible grades. Excellent test taker.

Current job: Business Analyst at small, niche, unheard-of consulting company (2 years). Formerly, financial analyst at large F100 (1.75 years), and a couple internships. I’ve done well and made meaningful, positive impact everywhere I’ve worked.

Location: Southern California.

Current salary: Just over 82k.

Current plan of attack: Finish L3, finish the 3 BIWS courses I’m taking, and apply for any jobs I find that I seem to qualify for. I’m booked until June, basically.

I’m very, very confused about how to get where I want to be. I have minimal connections. I’m open to a paycut, but would really prefer not to. I’m probably too old for the entry level positions, anyway. I’ve been thinking about going back to school, but I have debt from law school already (long story short: I realized I didn’t want to be a lawyer, but am holding out to quickly fading hope that the degree might prove useful in the future).

Does anyone have any input on:

  1. What kind of positions I should be applying for to get where I want to be?

  2. Should I move somewhere there are more jobs available, like NYC or Chicago or SF, and would I even be a remotely competitive applicant?

  3. Is going back to school a good idea? While I’m averse to taking on more debt, I would consider one year programs or part-time programs. Are Masters in Finance worthwhile for me? Honestly, I feel I have enough education already. However, my grades aren’t great, but they would almost certainly be top-notch if I were to get another degree. I’ve come of age.

Thank you very much. While I’m happy to receive all feedback, I’d appreciate it if you could tone down the snark just this once. I’m sensitive right now.

#2

Well for starters your career doesn’t appear to be in shambles. You’re not where you want to be, admittedly, but you’ve got a good track record of employment and are almost done your CFA exams.

If you were anywhere but the US, I would actually say yes to the MBA. In Canada you can spend $50k to $80k, subtract bursaries and scholarships and you’re looking at 30-50k. And you’re straight into ibanking or the buy side if you have good grades - after that it’s up to you to make a career out of it.

Realistically, I’m aware that you are $200k and a lot of risk away from an MBA if you stay in the US. So I’d say get your networking act together and start looking for a toehold in the industry. Find a junior analyst position, an internship, anything, and knock it out of the park. You’ll likely have to go alternative - small funds, maybe something more wealth management than asset management.

At the end of the day without an MBA restart it will be difficult and will be based on your persistence and ability to network and have somebody take a chance on you. But this also entails less downside risk. I’d spend the next year or two busting your ass to do this, and if that doesn’t work, then consider the MBA.

#3

If you’re interested in investing, why not just invest your own money? Your resume doesn’t sound so bad really but yeah it is going in a totally different track.

#4

You didn’t set the world on fire but you’re not in shambles, dude.

And fyi, I got an entry level job at the age of 33 and I don’t regret the move one bit. But yes, there were a lot of hints that people felt I was too old.

#5

yep i like ur plan. focus on the june tests. worry later about other things. the ideal time for me to look for work is prolyl january + u get year end bonus.

#6

Dude your career is not in shambles.

I actually like the MBA idea. UCLA is a good program for the money. You’re going to work for another 35 years, longer than you’ve been alive. Thats a long time to pay down debt and save for retirement.

#7

There’s your problem. As others have said, your career is not in shambles. You’re in a much better position than most. At your stage, it’s all about networking. It sucks, but you got to do it. So, how do you meet the right people? Easy, stalk them. Seriously.

Do you know where you want to work? You should have a list of every asset manager in your area. Next, get a list of all the fund managers and analysts at those firms. Then start Internet stalking them. Linkedin is the obvious place to start. Start with the top guys and work your way down. You’re looking for their interests outside of work. I guarantee the higher-ups are involved in some charities. Join it. Join them all. Go to the events and meet your target. Strike up a conversation and try to get a second date.

Every single bit of that is long, hard work. But it works.

#8

#winning

#9

You’re overly dramatic. Macaulay Culkin is an example of a career in shambles. He’s close to your age too.

#10

Can you do the UCLA PT MBA program? It’s not ideal for career switchers but you can make it work with enough hustle.

#11

So, you want to be a PM? What asset class?

If you don’t even know the asset class then I don’t think you really know what you want to do. I don’t think you should take on any more debt without a clear idea of what you want to be doing.

What do you enjoying doing for work? Like reading economics? stocks? whatever it is, just run with it. Read books about the subject, talk to people about it, and one day you’ll be prepared when you have that shot.

#12

If someone “stalked” you, would you be more impressed or annoyed? Has anyone ever contacted you out of the blue for networking and how often have you helped?

#13

Firstly, if done correctly they shouldn’t know they’re being stalked. But don’t take what I say so literally.

Your last question doesn’t really make any sense. If I was contacted out of the blue, that would be a cold call. Networking is more about developing warm leads. If you find yourself at an event with an important person at a firm you’d like to work for, then you introduce yourself and strike up a conversation…you know, like a normal human would. It doesn’t have to be more than a couple minutes. Just be pleasent and ask for a chance to follow-up on something or another. Then you’re not calling out of the blue. You’ve established a relationship and have his/her permission to contact them later.

And, yes, it does work. Networking at events outside the industry is a bonus since you share something else in common with the person other than finance. But, obviously, industry conferences are entirely about networking so you can do it there too. Charity events work best though. From the perspective of the BSD fund manager, you’re showing an interest in something they feel passionate about, and the BSD probably will be more willing to engage with you than, say, at an industry conference where there will be hundreds of people trying to meet the same guy for the same reason. At a charity event (or substitute charity for any event outside of finance), you’re likely to be the only person there aiming to talk to this person with the intention of getting his/her business card. Your odds look a lot better this way.

To answer your question though, yes, I have helped two people get a job where I work that I met at social gatherings. I’m not in management, so I’m not really the right person to network with, but after striking up a conversation with these guys (two separate occasions) they seemed like cool guys so I passed their info on to our HR manager. They were both eventually hired.

Networking sucks. I hate it. I hate talking to people in general (amazing that I’m in sales huh?). But it is by far the most powerful tool when it comes to switching jobs.

#14

Guys, when he said stalk them. Seriously. He wasn’t that serious. But you should stalk them.

#15

See everyone, there’s a reason bromion is successful.

#16

@semantics

I am older, unemployed, lives in Orange County, oh, I am also a CFA charterholder :slight_smile:

Yes, my credentials says that I shouldn’t be offering any adice now but if anything below makes any sense to you then you should look into them to see how they would help you.

You should definately finish what you started with the CFA, focus on that first then think about what you want to do.

From your post, it seems that you do not clearly know what you want to do. Check out this guy’s post on how he got into a hedge fund as an undergrad:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/my-guide-on-how-to-get-a-hedge-fund-job-out-of-undergrad#comment-1226502

Are you interested, motivated, willing do go above and beyond what he has done to get into a hedge fund or mutual fund?

If not, I suggest re-discovering yourself. Find what you truly want to do, something that you would spend every last waking minute thinking about or working on to improve your game on that subject.

A good way that I have found is by reading books. You won’t have much time to do that now, but after June, read some titles that might interest you. For me, these were:

Liar’s Poker

The Big Short

Moneyball

Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff

The Quants: How a New Breed of Math… (I highly recommend this one as it provides a great background on hedge funds)

The Buy Side by Turney Duff

The 4 Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss (I would recommend this one to re-discover yourself)

Do you play poker? Many highly successful hedge fund PMs and business execs do. Causation does not imply correlation, but I can guarantee that the skills you learn from poker will carry you a long way. If you do not believe me, check out how many titles there are on the Art of War as it relates to business strategy. Is poker and the art of war any different? To me, it’s all about knowing yourself and knowing the opponent; raise a hand to get a feel of what the opponent has, then if they show weakness bet an amount to get more value. Or if they show strength, fold to save yourself from losing more than what you have to.

Thank you for listening, now I must to go back to my job search.

#17

Although these books are interesting, reading them will not get you the job of your dreams. You’re better off using the time stalking.

#18

I’ve spent plenty of time reading books about the industry over my 9 years in the business but haven’t really gotten a lot back on that time. For example, as an anecdote, someone I know well spent $1,000 on the Pitch Anything program and spent like a month building his deck based on the principles and practicing his pitch. I listened to his pitch and he explained all the principles but to me it was very convoluted and confusing. I spent two days building my deck which is about as straight forward and basic as possible with no fancy graphics or specialized pitching techniques. I heard universally across the board it was one of the best decks anyone had seen and that I pitch very well. The cost differential was similarly staggering, with his deck costing $15,000 to build (this is not uncommon for hedge funds) vs. about ~$200 for mine (I spent another $200 on printing costs).

Outcome: He raised a few million dollars and I raised 14x as much. Experience, results and content matter, fancy bullshit and academic science don’t. The KISS principle is king.

The other serious win for me here is I have a liberal arts degree from Scrub U and this other guy has two STEM degrees from an Ivy. We’re both Charterholders though, we have that hacksaw mark of shame in common.

#19

Actually though in seriousness, if you want to get better in this industry you should really study two books by Robert Greene: WAR and 48 Laws of Power. That seems unrelated to finance per se, but trust me, those are your books. Achieving any level of success in this business involves avoiding getting rickrolled.

If you want some business-y stuff, read Michael Porter.

That’s about it though once you have basic technical skills (such as from an undergrad degree).

#20

If we’re on to books, read anything by Brian Greene or Stephen Hawking. Understand, on a basically level, how the universe works. This time I am being both serious and literal.