I have been thinking lately…would the $110k Rotman fee be a worthy investment??
I will be moving to Toronto in August this year; I already moved my family (wife and two kids, boy 6 and girl 3) to Oakville in November last year…wife is an accountant, in the process of converting her ACCA designation to CPA-CGA.
I will be 34 in August… MSc Econometrics (top UK University), CFA Charterholder, CPA, and CAIA…I have 7yrs of work experience (UK territory) in Portfolio Management (1.5yrs Portfolio Manager, the rest as Investment Analyst/Senior Investment Analyst taking all sorts of roles from investment compliance to bits of funds research). Additional 3yrs of experience in financial services’ audit in a big 4 audit firm…total 10+yrs in the financial industry.
From what I have heard about the Toronto market, it’s highly unlikely that I will get anything that will pay me 100k+…actually, from my testing of the market (after application for advertised positions), I don’t think my resume is considered at all…I doubt they look at it before sending me a regret email. At this time, I am thinking even if I get a job, it’s gonna pay me in the 70s or 80s (net will be 1/3 of my current net)…my origin doesn’t help at all…as I am pure African (with good English – but every person got an accent, right??).
Going back to my question, assuming I get that mediocre 70/80s paying job, should I enrol for mornings/evenings Rotman MBA?/ any benefits? and do they write that the MBA is a morning/evening one on the certificate upon graduation?
Because there is no way I would go for full-time MBA (be a regular student for 2yrs)…I would rather do a 4-5yrs PhD course than a 2-yr full-time MBA.
Top UK Masters is probably better than most of the degrees in Canada, given your experiences at the PM/Senior Analyst level a part-time MBA would only be a minor resume booster. Personally I wouldn’t be doing that program part-time if it’s anything similar to the part-time programs in the US, i.e. scarce employment opportunities relative to the full-time program.
I appreciate your comments…thought of it because it seems Rotman is mentioned a lot in Toronto…
What do you think of Executive MBA? from top schools like Havard, Wharton etc? Does the E-MBA provide a good ROI…I wouldn’t mind taking $200k from my investment portfolio as long as I pursue the degree while working…and a good ROI is a sure thing…
If you are looking for the brand name, anything in the US in the top 20 is probably better than a Canadian degree, albeit most of these don’t have part-time programs. EMBA is definitely an option but it’s mostly for people who are comfortable in their current roles and looking to build some network. If you are looking at this as a stepstool to something better you really should be doing a full-time program, given the cost…
Since it’s too late to tell you to immigrate somewhere else (if your goal is to make money), I’ll try to be constructive…
I’m going to say it’s not worth it for you, as an alum - the strength of the program is for summer IB recruiting and mostly geared towards late 20s career changers. There are some mid 30s people in the part time program but generally the network and recruitment opportunities are limited. If you had to choose between the two, as an international, the full time would be a better option, maybe if you were 5 years younger… and didn’t have a Master’s already. There were quite a few internationals in my class who did do the MBA after an international Master’s, but more for visa and to get that infamous ‘Canadian experience’. Personally, I think it’s a very good school that I have greatly benefited from but there is an optimal time do it.
A few notes about the Toronto market… a large number of grads do start out in finance/corp roles for 75-90k (pre bonus), so if you’re already able to land a job in that figure then getting another degree isn’t going to be that accretive. 100s is not that common starting out with no track record/network/directly observed ability - not to say it’s not obtainable but given you are african from the UK and haven’t landed here yet, you can understand the skepticism. If you and the wife are able to bring in 150-200k you should be able to live comfortably in oakville sitting on your pot… that might be difficult with childcare factored in yet.
My recommendation if you have managed money before/cover a niche sector, is to start emailing/linkedin messaging fund analysts/managers around the street and see if they are hiring or looking to cover your sector. You will probably not get a response from most just because they are bombarded by students, grad students, and working people, but even if you get one it could help. Just be aware that buy side shops are tough to get into and starting salaries tend to be ‘mediocre’. As you probably know, applying on the internet must be done but is a low probability play given your international CV.
Hope that helps. You seem like a good guy and I wish you the best of luck.
Isn’t that for U of T? Isn’t U of T the top dog in Canada? If so, it wouldn’t hurt AS LONG as you will be staying in Canada. The only downside is that you’re going for the PT, which does not support its students with their job searching.
I am actually coming to Toronto as a new immigrant (PR holder). It seems my best bet is to take whatever job I get…financial analysis, investment compliance/operations etc… paying in the 70s and 80s…all with the intention of getting the Canadian experience. After some time, I can then try to go back to portfolio management…I am willing to do middle office jobs as long as I am interacting with portfolio managers and CIOs. I take your advice on using linkedin; I will try it…
If I was to do a full-time MBA, I would only go the Wharton or Harvard route…
Why only limit yourself to Harvard and Wharton? Columbia is just as good, if not better for buyside placement than Wharton. Any of the top M7 schools will place you in a great position for the roles you want especially given your previous background. Don’t do ops dude if you can avoid it that’s a blackhole.
Its just not clear to me what you’re trying to achieve. You want to make money but it seems you’re focused on family. You want to do an MBA but you want to do one where your family didn’t choose to immigrate. I get you’re sounding out possible paths which is why I’m still responding but the direction has to come from you.
A big part of that is it seems maybe immigrating to Canada wasn’t your idea or you did it for non-financial reasons without assessing the true costs. Regardless I’ll say readily that going to FP&A, Compliance, Ops, is never going to help you get into PM roles - that switch is pretty close to zero at your pay level/experience. For a young guy just out of school maybe…but for your salary expectations I would say not likely. Swing for the fences and go out and network into a role, working BO is going to kill your dream forever. It makes no sense to me that you would move here and then only consider US schools and leave/uproot your family again to attend school in another country for 2 years, and move permanently or move back to Canada. Unless it’s a top 3 university it’ll just be another foreign degree with no Canadian experience.
infinity: UofT is definitely top dog, but the market doesn’t really pay stellar salaries in general. Partially because the CoL is lower in Toronto but also because wages haven’t grown in a long time due to the structure of the economy. Talented Canadians do attend US schools if their focus is financial gain, Uof T is the school to attend if you plan on staying in Toronto/Eastern Canada.
Speaking from some personal experience, people always assume that if you get into Harvard or something, you’ll just uproot and go. In reality, you might realize that the personal or other costs can be pretty high. Going to such a place will help define your life and open many opportunities, but the cost of choosing that option increases as time goes by.