http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/world/asia/07fraud.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
elcfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am very disappointed with the derogative > generalizing comments about the Chinese in this > thread. Firstly, there is no evidence of the lady > being Chinese. Secondly, even if she were, it does > not give any of us any right to make such > generalizing comments. > > I have had many experiences with Chinese . Like my > interactions with people of other nations all over > the world, many of them were bad while others were > good. It would be wrong for me to generalize my > bad experiences to all the Chinese. > > Let’s hold us on the high grounds, guys. There is proof that cheating is rampant in China Clearly they bring this practice to America. Do some due diligence yourself. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
So, there is a difference between saying that “Chinese people are cheaters” and saying some or many Chinese people are cheaters. If you work with a Chinese person, are you going to accuse him of dishonesty on the basis of ethnicity? If you’re white, should I assume that you’re a redneck who clings to guns and religion? Clearly, there are many more of these among white people in America than among Chinese people.
There are cheaters in every ethnicity. Madoff’s ponzi scheme takes the cake, yes?
i said everyone does it, they just do it more
SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i said everyone does it, they just do it more Alas, your ignorance is painful to read. If you see more homicide news for a nation, does that mean homicide rate for that nation is high? Can you presume the nation consists more killer than other nation just because they report more homicide news? You, sir or madam, make me sad. Very sad.
skycfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > SuperiorReturn Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > i said everyone does it, they just do it more > > > Alas, your ignorance is painful to read. > > If you see more homicide news for a nation, does > that mean homicide rate for that nation is high? > Can you presume the nation consists more killer > than other nation just because they report more > homicide news? > > You, sir or madam, make me sad. Very sad. Look, I’m not taking a side here, but usng your homicide news example, if that news is based on some form of findings than it is just as wrong to fail to explore the validity as it is asume it is true. Despite the new mantra in PC America, cultural differences do exist. Within corporations as well as countries to name a few. However, I think it’s always important to stress that these differences are cultural and not racial. That being said, you can’t say that Asians cheat more without specifying your scale. Are we talking number weighted, as a percent, or value weighted. I believe value weighted would def be skewed towards Madoff.
I think this thread needs to be closed. It started as a pretty intersting thread and is really getting out of hand. They sure make crappy drywall though.
Boo to the folks who scream racism and destroy threads everytime somebody mentions another culture or race. Great thread, but it may have run it’s course.
SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i said everyone does it, they just do it more WTF? Is this guy for real?
wow, i stir up the pot a little bit and we have a collective b!tch fest. you guys are just a bunch of p ussies. if you don’t agree, dont just cry about it. Black Swan made a valid point . It is probably more cultural than racial.
Well, if you guys bothered to read the links, you’d see it’s actually a valid discussion. In each articles you have current Chinese officials and administrators within their academic and schooling systems quoted as saying this is an immense cultural problem. “Academic fraud, misconduct, and ethical violations are very common in China,’’ said professor Rao Yi, dean of the life sciences school at Peking University. “It is a big problem.’’ The first article quotes a named Chinese student: “Perhaps it’s a cultural difference but there is nothing bad or embarrassing about it,” said Mr. Lu, who started this semester on a master’s degree at Stanford University. “It’s not that students can’t do the work. They just see it as a way of saving time.” Again, I’m not taking a side here, simply pointing out that having the discussion is valid as people within the Chinese academic system are raising this as an issue. To blindly ignore their statements and discount the argument is pretty weak. Cultures are different, that’s part of what makes the world great. They simply have a different view on the issue. It’s also worth discussing that this issue is occurring in the same nation that promoted patent violations with no ramifications as a competitive advantage through the 80’s and 90’s. So there is a cultural precedent. All that being said, if you interview enough people you will inevitably find a few with quotes to support your point of view, so I admit that the existence of soundbites does not necessarily indicate the existence of a problem.
Yea I read the NY Times article. The biggest problem is that the fakers are not punished. When people see the fakers still driving the expensive cars and living the rich life and not get punished, the “expected value” is positive. It would be similar to this girl. She should be suspended or terminated from the CFA program. If no punishment occurs, dishonest people may consider doing it.
Wow, what a bunch of thin skinned posers here.
There is cheating in pretty much every culture, but I can’t help but notice that there are certain groups that simply feel less (or even no) shame in doing so. It’s the amoral “do whatever you have to” approach to life that evaluates cheating more on the “did you get caught” dimension than on the “is it wrong to do it” dimension. I think it is silly not to be aware that the location, culture, and social class that people were raised in affects their attitudes and propensities for cheating and lying (as well as other things, like mathematical, social, and/or verbal abilities). Certain cultures value different things (strength/beauty/intelligence/honesty/organization/loyalty/etc.) differently, and this affects how people who grow up in them react to the world they encounter. It’s also true that these things change over time and from generation to generation. The ease with which internet-connected students can submit fake papers these days, and the emphasis on standardized results over the thinking process in education and training makes a big difference too. A NY Times article recently (can’t find it now, but remember reading it), points out that college students these days (US College students) don’t even seem to understand why it’s wrong to copy text off the internet and submit it without citation. Research=“google it and copy”. It’s not even that that is plagiarism and dishonest to pass off other peoples’ work as your own for a grade; it’s that they don’t even understand why it might be wrong. And these are primarily US born-and-bred students who are supposedly more upstanding than most. What’s important is how this affects the way we interact with the actual people we come in contact with day-to-day, and that we be on the lookout to avoid rule systems that explicitly enforce stereotypes. We still need to give the benefit of the doubt to people; to let them show that they are bright, honest, or whatever, without pre-judging them based on these other characteristics. If one comes from a group known for these kinds of things (lying, cheating, whatnot), then that’s a signal to be extra aware of signs of dishonest behavior, but not to assume up front that the person will be dishonest. I suppose you might call it “trust, but verify.”
Well said Chad, I apologize for my post it was not fair to use that clown as a generalization, there’s no delete button. Let’s try to get this back on track, I’d be interested in knowing what the final verdict would be? Hopefully your friend will learn a valuable lesson that she will take with her to other parts of her life.
SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i said everyone does it, they just do it more They do it more that explain why they were majority of minority in Ivy league schools,right? 
Back on topic, I can smell her fear coming from “down there”. *deep sniff* … mmmmm.
This thread is so pathetic. TS, you are a tiny little whistle-blower.