http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
So far, I havn’t come further than chapter II, but I assume the point you are making is in the first paragraph. I wasn’t aware that so many expats have stranded and I wonder a little why. Before you take off into a country so unfamiliar to your own one, leave alone the cultural differences, you inform yourself and think through some worst case scenarios. Karen’s tragic fate is shared by many people in her home country and the story is a reminder that some insurances (like disabilty, life) are a must. Especially, when you have family.
the water situation will definitely be interesting. as the population grows, are they just going to keep desalinizing into eternity? i guess that will be their major area of research over the next 100 years b/c i can’t see it making sense over the long-run at anywhere near current day prices.
Most of the examples in the story are indeed sad. But I wonder why most of the comments at the bottom disagree entirely with how this writer describes the society there.
dedalus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Most of the examples in the story are indeed sad. > But I wonder why most of the comments at the > bottom disagree entirely with how this writer > describes the society there. i think like most people, the commentors focus on the slight misconceptions of the author but hardly deny the major premise of the work… that there is an underclass who is treated badly. not just maids, like one commentor mentioned aren’t always treated poorly, but that whole construction class. it is an unsustainable society. people have built ‘working’ cities as ports of products or near vast water resources since the dawn of time. a city built not as a port city and not near any water whatsoever is doomed to fail and would defy location geography as a science.
I didn’t know about the no bankruptcy thing… That is scary. One would think you should probably know that before buying a bunch of property…
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dedalus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Most of the examples in the story are indeed > sad. > > But I wonder why most of the comments at the > > bottom disagree entirely with how this writer > > describes the society there. > > > i think like most people, the commentors focus on > the slight misconceptions of the author but hardly > deny the major premise of the work… that there is > an underclass who is treated badly. not just > maids, like one commentor mentioned aren’t always > treated poorly, but that whole construction class. > it is an unsustainable society. people have built > ‘working’ cities as ports of products or near vast > water resources since the dawn of time. a city > built not as a port city and not near any water > whatsoever is doomed to fail and would defy > location geography as a science. The do have ports ( tax-free ports too ) and they are right on the ocean …hence the large tourism industry . The author has definitely played up the stereotypes but everything in there is true . I grew up there and have seen both sides of the coin .
They should take all the captured Somali pirates and force them into indentured servitude in Dubai and boom, both problems solved.
Have any of you guys been to Dubai? Is the beach really like that?
Rudeboi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > dedalus Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Most of the examples in the story are indeed > > sad. > > > But I wonder why most of the comments at the > > > bottom disagree entirely with how this writer > > > describes the society there. > > > > > > i think like most people, the commentors focus > on > > the slight misconceptions of the author but > hardly > > deny the major premise of the work… that there > is > > an underclass who is treated badly. not just > > maids, like one commentor mentioned aren’t > always > > treated poorly, but that whole construction > class. > > it is an unsustainable society. people have > built > > ‘working’ cities as ports of products or near > vast > > water resources since the dawn of time. a city > > built not as a port city and not near any water > > whatsoever is doomed to fail and would defy > > location geography as a science. > > > The do have ports ( tax-free ports too ) and they > are right on the ocean …hence the large tourism > industry . The author has definitely played up > the stereotypes but everything in there is true . > I grew up there and have seen both sides of the > coin . sorry to be naive a bit based on the fact that its difficult to find Dubai’s economic info as a city, but i was under the impression that it only really exported financial services and tourism and that it imported everything else. having a port for import is no notable point when analysing a city’s ability to survive the next 100 years. my point is that if it is not built on an exporting port of basic materials, oil or like in China, vast quantities of goods-in-process, then the long-term feasibility of the city’s existence is at stake, assuming there are no vast supplies of fresh water at hand. if the city cannot produce enough income in the long-term to sustain a water desalinization program then how will it get its fresh water? if dubai goes without fresh water for maybe 6 months, it will be an abandoned wasteland. i think dubai perfectly reflects the thinking of the past 20 years. the markets and economies of the world will soar to new height after new height without end. stock returns reflected that, house price appreciation reflected that, hell, our quality of life reflected that, but in the long-term, the way we live in the west is unsustainable. dubai was built to service those with money. as the house of cards falls (ps. i’m not a doomsdayer saying the world will end, i just see how water issues and food issues and oil issues will plague the world in the next 100 years) there won’t be money to spend in dubai to the point where, like in this article, the desert takes its land back the pushes this synthetic dream back to reality. there’s a reason why all the paradises in the world are ACTUAL paradises. they have the resources to sustain themselves as a paradise (ie. tropical (lots of rain), lots of fresh water, surrounded by an ocean of fish, etc etc). dubai is a paradise that ships everything in from other places. a paradise that adds an extra cost to every good makes it unsustainable in the very long-term. sure, so long as million dollar oil is around, its living off the needs of the west, but when and if that dependence goes away, there will be no dubai. it was a great idea to try, but building a major extravagant city there was a bad idea. this will be the sink hole for uae for the next 100 years i bet.
i think the article is an exaguration…i have lived in dubai all my life and love it!!!..undoubtedly these are tough times…but thats the case all over…a lotta ppl went on a borrowing spree with a lotta easy money but thats the story everywhere… the advantages of doing business in dubai is the lack of government restrictions in most cases…limited paper work …and relatively lower taxes…with the fall in property prices cost of doing business has dropped significantly in dubai …it also boasts of a good infrastructure and easy access to most parts of the world… i think the financial sector cud grow well in dubai…lotta HFs cud move here due to 1)tax free zone 2)less regulations 3) being close to a lotta rich ppl most major cities have had their real estate bubbles…but they have all come out of it stronger…dubai will too!!!
I went to Dubai in 2004. As soon as I stepped off the plane the first thing that I said was, “so when is this boom going to end?” The beaches are gorgeous though, and the water is clean.
aren’t they all dark? for example, there aren’t so many pale-skinned Canadians there, eh?
onlygodknowswhy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i think the article is an exaguration…i have > lived in dubai all my life and love > it!!!..undoubtedly these are tough times…but > thats the case all over…a lotta ppl went on a > borrowing spree with a lotta easy money but thats > the story everywhere… > > the advantages of doing business in dubai is the > lack of government restrictions in most > cases…limited paper work …and relatively lower > taxes…with the fall in property prices cost of > doing business has dropped significantly in dubai > …it also boasts of a good infrastructure and > easy access to most parts of the world… > > i think the financial sector cud grow well in > dubai…lotta HFs cud move here due to > 1)tax free zone > 2)less regulations > 3) being close to a lotta rich ppl > > most major cities have had their real estate > bubbles…but they have all come out of it > stronger…dubai will too!!! the difference between dubai and 99% of successful cities, is that there is no water and no water means no agriculture and none of either of those means it costs 10x more the make/ship those into the city. and unlike most other successful metropolitan areas, there is large mother-nature made water sources anywhere close to dubai. me and my geography major wife both agree that this society is impossible to sustain. as water will be the #1 resource in the next 100 years even more than oil, dubai is doomed to fail as the worldwide price of water rises. even if desalinization was 1/4 of the cost that it is today, it’d be difficult to sustain a city paying that price. as for non-ecological reasons it will fail, taxes there will not be zero forever. that is also unsustainable especially when you’re trying to battle the water crisis day in day out. there is no upside to dubai for the uae. price of oil goes up, everywhere but dubai gets rich and dubai becomes more costly as EVERYTHING must be shipped and/or processed using oil. it will be a money sinkhole for the region into eternity.
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > onlygodknowswhy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > i think the article is an exaguration…i have > > lived in dubai all my life and love > > it!!!..undoubtedly these are tough > times…but > > thats the case all over…a lotta ppl went on > a > > borrowing spree with a lotta easy money but > thats > > the story everywhere… > > > > the advantages of doing business in dubai is > the > > lack of government restrictions in most > > cases…limited paper work …and relatively > lower > > taxes…with the fall in property prices cost > of > > doing business has dropped significantly in > dubai > > …it also boasts of a good infrastructure and > > easy access to most parts of the world… > > > > i think the financial sector cud grow well in > > dubai…lotta HFs cud move here due to > > 1)tax free zone > > 2)less regulations > > 3) being close to a lotta rich ppl > > > > most major cities have had their real estate > > bubbles…but they have all come out of it > > stronger…dubai will too!!! > > > the difference between dubai and 99% of successful > cities, is that there is no water and no water > means no agriculture and none of either of those > means it costs 10x more the make/ship those into > the city. and unlike most other successful > metropolitan areas, there is large mother-nature > made water sources anywhere close to dubai. me and > my geography major wife both agree that this > society is impossible to sustain. as water will be > the #1 resource in the next 100 years even more > than oil, dubai is doomed to fail as the worldwide > price of water rises. even if desalinization was > 1/4 of the cost that it is today, it’d be > difficult to sustain a city paying that price. > > as for non-ecological reasons it will fail, taxes > there will not be zero forever. that is also > unsustainable especially when you’re trying to > battle the water crisis day in day out. > > there is no upside to dubai for the uae. price of > oil goes up, everywhere but dubai gets rich and > dubai becomes more costly as EVERYTHING must be > shipped and/or processed using oil. it will be a > money sinkhole for the region into eternity. This is, ultimately, the problem of the entire middle east. They claim they are building a tourism center for eternity, yet their laws and religion are not congruent with those plans. Eventually, the oil will run out and they will be screwed. They have not built a middle class that not only consumes, but also produces. They have not built schools and infrastructure to support an upwardly mobile and intelligent base of people that can make STUFF. They have not really done anything but buy fancy cars and build fancy buildings, all of which require maintenance and eventual replacement. They have squandered their money instead of investing it in the most important thing for any society, their own people. Most importantly, they have subjugated the rights of a huge portion of their population, not just women, but also these foreigners and their own “lower class” people. Ultimately, those people will raise up and destroy the upper classes, if those upper classes haven’t already expatriated to western countries. If they have, then the lawlessness will reign in the ME and that will spread to the other countries of the world until they burn themselves out (hopefully not taking mankind with them) and they go back to being desert nomads. It is why Russia will continue to decline and why the ME is doomed. They are short-term thinkers.
What can they produce after the oil runs out? I don’t mean right now, where the answer seems to be “nothing,” but if you were the dictator of this place (say, Shiek Mohammed), what would you have Dubai build up or target as a strategic industry. Education and universities can help, but they still need to be oriented toward producing productive activities.
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What can they produce after the oil runs out? I > don’t mean right now, where the answer seems to be > “nothing,” but if you were the dictator of this > place (say, Shiek Mohammed), what would you have > Dubai build up or target as a strategic industry. > > > Education and universities can help, but they > still need to be oriented toward producing > productive activities. Tourism , free ports and a hub for trade between the west ( i.e Europe/North America) and asia . Dubai started doing all this a while back with the jebel ali free port and the DIFC for trade and finance . The fancy malls/hotels , sporting events , shopping festivals ,private beaches etc etc …not to mention the multi-cultural high price hoookers did help to draw in a lot of tourists . However they went a little overboard and bit off more than they could chew . Abu-dhabi on the other hand was/is a little more conservative ( by conservative I mean less flamboyant infrastructure projects ) since they are still sitting on a lot of oil . Abu-dhabi - the capital of the UAE is like the mature older brother and Dubai is the younger brother that refuces to grow . However that may change given the current economic condition .
What does it mean to be a hub between east and west? Cargo ships come to refuel on the way to and from Asia? Seems to me that maybe it can be a kind of Disneyland on the Arab Peninsula tourist resort, but I don’t see that sitting well with ordinary Dubai folks (hey, we’re the Arab state with the loosest morals and hottest hoookers, yea). Dubai is a small country, so it might be able to survive on tourism, but I am not sure that it will be a very satisfying. Are there any other viable industries? (By the way, I’m not trying to belittle your suggestion, I’m just trying to think it through a bit)
Dubai is actually a city and a very small one too ,realtive to NYC , Toronto or Mumbai . They have invested in education as well since a lot of international universities have setup branches there . They do have a small ship building industry there as well . As far as morals go they tend to look away when it comes to the abundance of hookers there since it brings in tourism but you can get arrested for public displays of affection . However they are still a lot less conservative than some of the neighbouring countries . I agree that whatever they are doing is not sustainable long term unless they develop stable a manufacturing sector .
Dubai’s gross domestic product as of 2005 was US$37 billion.[9] Although Dubai’s economy was built on the back of the oil industry,[68] revenues from oil and natural gas currently account for less than 6% of the emirate’s revenues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai